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I'm a fan of alternative and otherwise "non-canon" content, and I feel as though it should be in some way shape or form. My arguments can be found here (https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2984709#189), and are dealing with this thread.
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Non-canon collection blog/notes
- Thread starter Amexim
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The premise is this.
This site is an indexing site. We should be as conservative as possible with the things that we omit from being eligible for a profile, rather than make the habit of refusing profiles. To me, it doesn't really matter if there's 50 of the same profile because it's as simple as copying and pasting, but redundancy and all that— yeah yeah.
So, instead, let's try any other alternative to full profiles.
This site is an indexing site. We should be as conservative as possible with the things that we omit from being eligible for a profile, rather than make the habit of refusing profiles. To me, it doesn't really matter if there's 50 of the same profile because it's as simple as copying and pasting, but redundancy and all that— yeah yeah.
So, instead, let's try any other alternative to full profiles.
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I truly do not find this as a necessity at all.
How about this? YOU make the collection and blog instead of forcing it to be a practice for others to follow.
How about this? YOU make the collection and blog instead of forcing it to be a practice for others to follow.
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We don't need 50 Geralts if the majority of them are simply non-canon crossovers or guest appearances. If they are all canonical appearances, then fine. If not, then they don't need a file. Being an indexing site is not an excuse.
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Also, and I need you to understand this clearly please.
You are projecting hard.
"People want this kind of information." No... you want the type of information. No one wants every single non canon detail, outlier, and hyperbole listed. We don't need to start babysitting people. Being an indexing site is not a good excuse..at all.
You are projecting hard.
"People want this kind of information." No... you want the type of information. No one wants every single non canon detail, outlier, and hyperbole listed. We don't need to start babysitting people. Being an indexing site is not a good excuse..at all.
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Thank you. Finally someone said it.Sera EX said:
Also, Kaguya? Are you kidding me? The final villain in Naruto, one of the most popular anime and manga series in the world? That's like saying no one will know anything about Budokai 3 Frieza despite the fact that he's arguably the most popular villain in all of anime
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Tier: 6-B, possibly High 6-A | At least 6-B, possibly High 6-A | High 6-A | At least High 6-A | At least High 6-A
Name: Noctis Lucis Caelum CXIV, "Noct", "King of Light", "The True King"
Origin: Final Fantasy XV
Gender: Male
Age: 20 | 30
Classification: Human, King (Former Prince) of Lucis, King of Light
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Stealth Mastery, Magic, Power Bestowal (Can grant others the ability to summon and wield any of the weapons in his arsenal), Flight, Intangibility, Duplication, Teleportation, Telekinesis, Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Healing, Regenerationn (Mid-Low), Statistics Amplification (All of his weapons boost at least one of his parameters, like his resistance towards elemental magic), Statistics Reduction (Some of his weapons reduce the target's strength, durability, etc.), Sound Manipulation (Can emit powerful sound waves with the Noiseblaster), Gravity Manipulation (Able to create a gravitational sphere that pulls enemies in), Precognition (Able to see the deaths of others), Holy Manipulation, Energy Blasts, Poison Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Time Stop (Can imbue his weapons with the Stop spell), Spatial Manipulation and BFR (Can rip a hole in the universe and banish enemies to the void with Alterna), Summoning (Can summon various weapons in battle, as well as the Astrals to aid him in combat), Absorption (Can absorb elemental energies and the life force of his enemies), Death Manipulation, Barrier Creation (Should be capable of erecting "The Wall" like all Kings before him. Regular Kingsglaive members as well as Regis were all capable of creating spherical barriers around themselves, and Noctis should be capable of the same), Resistance towards Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Petrification, Transmutation, Electricity Manipulation, and Darkness Manipulation
Attack Potency: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Matched and parried blows from Titan, who caught a meteor and should not be significantly weaker than Ifrit) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Capable of significantly damaging Leviathan) | Multi-Continent level (Fought against Ifrit, whose flames can turn the world to ashes) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level (His power vastly exceeds that of the Astrals, including Shiva, who could subdue Ardyn Izunia with ease and killed Ifrit with her Diamond Dust attack)
Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Fought and can dodge attacks from the Coeruls and Thunderocs, both of which use natural lightning to attack, comparable to Leviathan and Marilith, both of whom can react to the Royal Arms' telekinetic attacks)
Lifting Strength: Class T (Matched and physically overpowered Titan)
Striking Strength: Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | At least Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | Multi-Continent Class (Broke off Ifrit's horn) | At least Multi-Continent Class | At least Multi-Continent Class
Durability: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Tanked several attacks from Titan, as well as an attack from an enraged Leviathan) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level | Multi-Continent level (Took attacks from Ifrit and withstood being struck by Shiva's Diamond Dust) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level
Stamina: Extremely high (Capable of fighting for several days straight without rest or sustenance)
Range: Extended melee range with various weapons, hundreds of meters with magic and firearms, several kilometers with warping and Armiger Arsenal | Planetary as the King of Light (Eliminated the Starscourge across the entire world of Eos)
Standard Equipment:
Engine Blade: Noctis' preferred one-handed weapon, it was presented to him on his sixteenth birthday, absorbing the elemental powers of those it defeats. Noctis later upgrades it with the latest in Insomnian technology to create the Ultima Blade, an immensely more powerful weapon that also increases Noctis' health and mana reserves. Ring of the Lucii: A treasured item passed down by all of the kings of Lucis to their successors, it binds their souls together and allows them to draw on the power of Eos' Crystal. Upon activation, it grants Noctis incredible magical power and access to the whole of the Armiger Arsenal, but this can be incredibly painful and leaves extensive scarring after use, so it is not something he can use lightly until he becomes the King of Light. Royal Arms: The thirteen ancestral weapons passed down by the greatest kings of the Lucii, Noctis gains access to them while utilizing the powers of the Ring of the Lucii. Intelligence: Noctis is an expert combatant, wielding a wide variety of different weapons with expert precision, shifting between them on a whim when the situation calls for it. In addition, he holds perfect synergy with his three companions, performing various combination attacks with them by communicating with naught but a few words. He is also a skilled diplomat, convincing the First Secretary of Altissia to lend him aid in dealing with Leviathan while also minimizing casualties. By the time of his final battle with Ardyn, Noctis managed to defeat his ancestor with the full might of the kings of Lucis despite Ardyn's own access to the Ring of the Lucii's abilities and thousands of years of experience. Lastly, Noctis is also proficient in the art of stealth, being able to sneak around heavily-guarded Imperial bases, and warp-kill targets while remaining undetected.
Weaknesses: Cannot use the Ring of the Lucii's abilities on a whim, as using it severely damages his body and drains his life-force, the Star of the Rogue can be used up-close, but doing so damages Noctis, some of his weapons also decrease his resistance (Example: Katana of the Warrior decreases his resistance to darkness), must be in perilous situations to summon the Astrals
(After all of the notable attacks and all that other stuff, at the VERY BOTTOM, even under the Keys)
Notes:
Non-Canon/Crossover: Tekken 7; Martial Arts, Tier 9-B to 7-B durability/AP/Striking. FFXIV; Wind Manipulation, Martial Arts. Tier whatever you get the point.
Name: Noctis Lucis Caelum CXIV, "Noct", "King of Light", "The True King"
Origin: Final Fantasy XV
Gender: Male
Age: 20 | 30
Classification: Human, King (Former Prince) of Lucis, King of Light
Powers and Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Weapon Mastery, Stealth Mastery, Magic, Power Bestowal (Can grant others the ability to summon and wield any of the weapons in his arsenal), Flight, Intangibility, Duplication, Teleportation, Telekinesis, Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Light Manipulation, Healing, Regenerationn (Mid-Low), Statistics Amplification (All of his weapons boost at least one of his parameters, like his resistance towards elemental magic), Statistics Reduction (Some of his weapons reduce the target's strength, durability, etc.), Sound Manipulation (Can emit powerful sound waves with the Noiseblaster), Gravity Manipulation (Able to create a gravitational sphere that pulls enemies in), Precognition (Able to see the deaths of others), Holy Manipulation, Energy Blasts, Poison Manipulation, Curse Manipulation, Time Stop (Can imbue his weapons with the Stop spell), Spatial Manipulation and BFR (Can rip a hole in the universe and banish enemies to the void with Alterna), Summoning (Can summon various weapons in battle, as well as the Astrals to aid him in combat), Absorption (Can absorb elemental energies and the life force of his enemies), Death Manipulation, Barrier Creation (Should be capable of erecting "The Wall" like all Kings before him. Regular Kingsglaive members as well as Regis were all capable of creating spherical barriers around themselves, and Noctis should be capable of the same), Resistance towards Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Poison Manipulation, Mind Manipulation, Time Manipulation, Death Manipulation, Petrification, Transmutation, Electricity Manipulation, and Darkness Manipulation
Attack Potency: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Matched and parried blows from Titan, who caught a meteor and should not be significantly weaker than Ifrit) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Capable of significantly damaging Leviathan) | Multi-Continent level (Fought against Ifrit, whose flames can turn the world to ashes) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level (His power vastly exceeds that of the Astrals, including Shiva, who could subdue Ardyn Izunia with ease and killed Ifrit with her Diamond Dust attack)
Speed: Massively Hypersonic+ (Fought and can dodge attacks from the Coeruls and Thunderocs, both of which use natural lightning to attack, comparable to Leviathan and Marilith, both of whom can react to the Royal Arms' telekinetic attacks)
Lifting Strength: Class T (Matched and physically overpowered Titan)
Striking Strength: Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | At least Country Class, possibly Multi-Continent Class | Multi-Continent Class (Broke off Ifrit's horn) | At least Multi-Continent Class | At least Multi-Continent Class
Durability: Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level (Tanked several attacks from Titan, as well as an attack from an enraged Leviathan) | At least Country level, possibly Multi-Continent level | Multi-Continent level (Took attacks from Ifrit and withstood being struck by Shiva's Diamond Dust) | At least Multi-Continent level (Empowered with the combined might of all of the Kings of Lucis before him, including Regis and the founding king Somnus, who banished Ardyn Izunia from Insomnia) | At least Multi-Continent level
Stamina: Extremely high (Capable of fighting for several days straight without rest or sustenance)
Range: Extended melee range with various weapons, hundreds of meters with magic and firearms, several kilometers with warping and Armiger Arsenal | Planetary as the King of Light (Eliminated the Starscourge across the entire world of Eos)
Standard Equipment:
Engine Blade: Noctis' preferred one-handed weapon, it was presented to him on his sixteenth birthday, absorbing the elemental powers of those it defeats. Noctis later upgrades it with the latest in Insomnian technology to create the Ultima Blade, an immensely more powerful weapon that also increases Noctis' health and mana reserves. Ring of the Lucii: A treasured item passed down by all of the kings of Lucis to their successors, it binds their souls together and allows them to draw on the power of Eos' Crystal. Upon activation, it grants Noctis incredible magical power and access to the whole of the Armiger Arsenal, but this can be incredibly painful and leaves extensive scarring after use, so it is not something he can use lightly until he becomes the King of Light. Royal Arms: The thirteen ancestral weapons passed down by the greatest kings of the Lucii, Noctis gains access to them while utilizing the powers of the Ring of the Lucii. Intelligence: Noctis is an expert combatant, wielding a wide variety of different weapons with expert precision, shifting between them on a whim when the situation calls for it. In addition, he holds perfect synergy with his three companions, performing various combination attacks with them by communicating with naught but a few words. He is also a skilled diplomat, convincing the First Secretary of Altissia to lend him aid in dealing with Leviathan while also minimizing casualties. By the time of his final battle with Ardyn, Noctis managed to defeat his ancestor with the full might of the kings of Lucis despite Ardyn's own access to the Ring of the Lucii's abilities and thousands of years of experience. Lastly, Noctis is also proficient in the art of stealth, being able to sneak around heavily-guarded Imperial bases, and warp-kill targets while remaining undetected.
Weaknesses: Cannot use the Ring of the Lucii's abilities on a whim, as using it severely damages his body and drains his life-force, the Star of the Rogue can be used up-close, but doing so damages Noctis, some of his weapons also decrease his resistance (Example: Katana of the Warrior decreases his resistance to darkness), must be in perilous situations to summon the Astrals
(After all of the notable attacks and all that other stuff, at the VERY BOTTOM, even under the Keys)
Notes:
Non-Canon/Crossover: Tekken 7; Martial Arts, Tier 9-B to 7-B durability/AP/Striking. FFXIV; Wind Manipulation, Martial Arts. Tier whatever you get the point.
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"This site is an indexing site. We should be as conservative as possible with the things that we omit from being eligible for a profile, rather than make the habit of refusing profiles."
The issue with this assertion is that you can make the argument for other files like a super wanky Chuck Norris file or that stupid Barney file that was super controversial. Not everything needs a file and as shown previously, certain files are controversial. We are an indexing site yes. But not everything needs to be indexed. Non-Canon files like 2B from Soul Calibur or Hyde from BBTAG are not in anyway, shape or form similar to Akuma from Tekken or Geralt from Soul Calibur. We can't allow every little thing on the site.
The issue with this assertion is that you can make the argument for other files like a super wanky Chuck Norris file or that stupid Barney file that was super controversial. Not everything needs a file and as shown previously, certain files are controversial. We are an indexing site yes. But not everything needs to be indexed. Non-Canon files like 2B from Soul Calibur or Hyde from BBTAG are not in anyway, shape or form similar to Akuma from Tekken or Geralt from Soul Calibur. We can't allow every little thing on the site.
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Put that in a blog....
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https://joke-battles.fandom.com/wiki/Joke_Battles_Wikia
- As said in the rules, just because this is a profile mainly for joke profiles, does not mean all profiles or characters have to be jokes/nonsensical. Adding serious stats to YouTube personalities (AVGN, JonTron, etc.), popular online characters, or obscure non canon characters (such as from the Dragon Ball games) are allowed as well. Most characters that otherwise wouldn't be allowed on the two sites listed above are welcomed
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Or, hear me out. People can do that on their own time in their own personal sanboxes or blogs. We don't need a non canon page. Just no....like seriously...no.
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Maybe we can make a category for non-canon/non-notable profiles to be kept in sandboxes/user blogs and stuff like that? Not necessarily joke profiles but stuff that wouldn't really fly here (like composite characters who don't need compositing or crossover characters who aren't notable enough).
I dunno, I think it's the best solution of the problem without outright saying no (and it can be pretty fun)
I dunno, I think it's the best solution of the problem without outright saying no (and it can be pretty fun)
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Characters that appear in crossovers, even with a small difference like tiering, or a new ability, should have information on them documented for the public to consume, so people don't have to do their own research to dig through the scaling of the videogame their favorite guest character appeared in. Like the purpose of the wiki is.
This is not at all necessary at all and seems to mostly stem out of personal desires of yours, as Sera pointed out. This is an indexing site, yeah, but the main thing it is aiming for is accuracy, and nothing more; we don't need tens of repeated pages that are really just copy-pastes of one another with an additional ability or key here and there. Correctness and reliability both hold far greater weight than the, sorry for the harsh word, ridiculous need to catalogue even the tiniest of details that next to no one cares about.
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
Needless to say, I agree with Sera and the others, you can do Composite / Non-Canon pages in your own personal blogs or sandboxes or whatever as a small fun experiment, but trying to apply this as a standard that everyone should follow is plain laughable.
This is not at all necessary at all and seems to mostly stem out of personal desires of yours, as Sera pointed out. This is an indexing site, yeah, but the main thing it is aiming for is accuracy, and nothing more; we don't need tens of repeated pages that are really just copy-pastes of one another with an additional ability or key here and there. Correctness and reliability both hold far greater weight than the, sorry for the harsh word, ridiculous need to catalogue even the tiniest of details that next to no one cares about.
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
Needless to say, I agree with Sera and the others, you can do Composite / Non-Canon pages in your own personal blogs or sandboxes or whatever as a small fun experiment, but trying to apply this as a standard that everyone should follow is plain laughable.
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Or small blogs going over the overall scaling of Non-canon info.
Storm 4:
Kaguya Otsutsuki's feat in this game is multi-solar system level because she has the capability of destroying a dimension with multiple stars that are lightyears away.
Naruto:
Equipment: Dragon Blade (in Naruto Dragon Blade Chronicles), Power Mimicry (can use any jutsu that isn't a kekkei genkai)
Storm 4:
Kaguya Otsutsuki's feat in this game is multi-solar system level because she has the capability of destroying a dimension with multiple stars that are lightyears away.
Naruto:
Equipment: Dragon Blade (in Naruto Dragon Blade Chronicles), Power Mimicry (can use any jutsu that isn't a kekkei genkai)
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Sandboxes was just a suggestion but yeah. I don't think the idea is bad if it's handled well, but I agree that dumping the most minor of non-canon changes in primarily canon articles can be confusing or even misleading.Sera EX said:
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To address some of what I just refreshed to read.
I wouldn't say me assuming that there's others who share this opinion is projecting. Me recognizing that my thoughts aren't unique is why I say this.
As for the idea that we don't need to, beer I remind you of the fact that you had to have a thread like the otherone in the first place? The fact people want smash profiles for whichever character ur proof that this type of thing would be useful, because it gets all the information out there fast. Who said I was forcing it on anyone, by the way? If y'all would rather have to have endless conversation rejecting people for the same reason than come up with a low effort compromise to get rid of the complaints, then be my guest, all i'm saying is laziness isn't an excuse for refusing to document information when you claim to care about information.
I wouldn't say me assuming that there's others who share this opinion is projecting. Me recognizing that my thoughts aren't unique is why I say this.
As for the idea that we don't need to, beer I remind you of the fact that you had to have a thread like the otherone in the first place? The fact people want smash profiles for whichever character ur proof that this type of thing would be useful, because it gets all the information out there fast. Who said I was forcing it on anyone, by the way? If y'all would rather have to have endless conversation rejecting people for the same reason than come up with a low effort compromise to get rid of the complaints, then be my guest, all i'm saying is laziness isn't an excuse for refusing to document information when you claim to care about information.
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You misunderstand. People weren't saying they wanted Smash files because they want non canon files, they were claiming that BBxTB and Smash files are similar to SMT Dante and similar and thus should also be allowed.
No one wants to list a bunch of non canon and outlier feats anywhere.
No one wants to list a bunch of non canon and outlier feats anywhere.
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I think that it would be better to make people convert these to blogs or do notes or LITERALLY ANYTHING else to get the information out so the site can do its job? What's the point in using "indexing site" as an argument as STAFF when you don't want to do your best to give as much info as possible? You might as well say X character can't have a profile just because you don't feel like it.
It's actually nonsense. Y'all don't even have to do much of anything because no one is forcing you to make these yourselves. I'm just saying that if anyone asks for a profile, you tell them to put it on a giant blog instead. Have a procedure to handle this in a way that doesn't just ******* dead the information anyone would be asking for. It's also absolutely false that no one is asking or cares to hear of this information. We got Weekly over here at least INTERESTED in the idea of High Tier RWBY as a whole example, and anyone who didn't know anything about that but likes RWBY like he does would like to know this too.
It's actually nonsense. Y'all don't even have to do much of anything because no one is forcing you to make these yourselves. I'm just saying that if anyone asks for a profile, you tell them to put it on a giant blog instead. Have a procedure to handle this in a way that doesn't just ******* dead the information anyone would be asking for. It's also absolutely false that no one is asking or cares to hear of this information. We got Weekly over here at least INTERESTED in the idea of High Tier RWBY as a whole example, and anyone who didn't know anything about that but likes RWBY like he does would like to know this too.
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I'm able to post a few different examples in detail if you'd give me the chance to produce a visual example, so that way you staff can take your pick. But something has to be done. You clearly don't want these profiles to keep being attempted, you also claim to care about indexing. It's logically contradictory to omit simple shit, when this whole site is just as unnecessary as this request.
Saying things like "nobody wants this" is both untrue, and ignores problems at hand, and misinterpreting me saying "no one knows Kaguya is Multi Solar System" as me saying "no one knows about Kaguya" is also ridiculous. Take Darkanime's work on the Anime version of Dragon Ball Z. I wouldn't have known shit about that scaling without that guy's work. No one needs to work extremely hard to gather everything, but point people away from profiles and into different things or make accommodations or something. Just saying no and not pointing anyone to anything alternatively has been the practice for a long time on this subject— I have yet to see any staff do that when dealing with a situation like this personally speaking, nor am I aware of any resource where this information can sit in one hub just Incase someone is curious.
Saying things like "nobody wants this" is both untrue, and ignores problems at hand, and misinterpreting me saying "no one knows Kaguya is Multi Solar System" as me saying "no one knows about Kaguya" is also ridiculous. Take Darkanime's work on the Anime version of Dragon Ball Z. I wouldn't have known shit about that scaling without that guy's work. No one needs to work extremely hard to gather everything, but point people away from profiles and into different things or make accommodations or something. Just saying no and not pointing anyone to anything alternatively has been the practice for a long time on this subject— I have yet to see any staff do that when dealing with a situation like this personally speaking, nor am I aware of any resource where this information can sit in one hub just Incase someone is curious.
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Taking "indexing site" way to seriously— you act like you don't actually want to cover information. I know i'm Not the only one who doesn't like how gatekeeper the standards for a "notable" work is to be able to be featured on the site. To be as exclusive as possible or lazy with the application of profiles or some form of documentation defeats the purpose you guys claim this cite serves.
Answer me this question. What's this site for?
Answer me this question. What's this site for?
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To quote Ultima thus:
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
You didn't know Naruto had an unholy death ninja blade in the Storm Games? That's not our problem, and is likely something that the Naruto wiki or something would want to tackle, rather than the Versus Battle Wiki.
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Official stuff that's actually canon to whatever material they're from rather than Fanfiction level differences between already canon characters.
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Sera, i'm Talking about this from the beginning. Since, like, years ago. I've seen people ask about creating smash bros profiles, i've Seen why people rail against the idea of them because they're just "higher tier" profiles.
From my perspective, this cite is a place where you can learn about the strength of multiple characters from all kinds of fiction. Some people even learn new things about new stories or content and get into them because of this cite. So you can't say these profiles serve no purpose if not everyone in their mother knows that Smash Kirby is 7-B or whatever.
From my perspective, this cite is a place where you can learn about the strength of multiple characters from all kinds of fiction. Some people even learn new things about new stories or content and get into them because of this cite. So you can't say these profiles serve no purpose if not everyone in their mother knows that Smash Kirby is 7-B or whatever.
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