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Phoenix Wright Ace Attorney Downgrade

It is actually fighting-related- it states it leads to "drastic self-empowering". From my understanding it's something like researching the location of an artifact that'll boost your statistics, I think.
 
Hmmmmm. I think better to ask mods about this type of preparation. Instead of arguing which way is the best, be on objective line.
 
He has one 9-B feat, one (possibly) 9-C feat and a good amount of anti-feats. Bullets and knives are always treated as lethal in his verse, whippings hurt him, he was scared of a tiger, getting hit with objects in the head knocks him out, gets hurt by a lot of people in comedic moments, and overall he's shown as a very normal dude.
 
Well, there's also an explosion feat of Apollo justice in part 5, but at the same time I don't know should it be considered or not.
 
Armorchompy said:
He has one 9-B feat, one (possibly) 9-C feat and a good amount of anti-feats. Bullets and knives are always treated as lethal in his verse, whippings hurt him, he was scared of a tiger, getting hit with objects in the head knocks him out, gets hurt by a lot of people in comedic moments, and overall he's shown as a very normal dude.
Click to expand...
What 9-C feat?
 
The fall in the river, it's kind of impossible to calc since we don't really have any actual data on its height.
 
If I remember right, falling on water is physically pretty much same as falling on ground, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
The "like concrete" part is a hyperbole. Landing on water hard enough is lethal, but no matter the height, it's never gonna be as damaging as landing on a solid. It was tested too, by the Mythbusters IIRC.
 
I couldn't find the full thing, but here ya go.



The pig's body had double the injuries when landing on the pavement had double the bone fractures than the one dropped on water and they were more severe. And they dropped 'em from a plane so high up it'd reach terminal speed, way higher than Wright's fall.
 
So, I think there's a little things to discuss at this moment:
1. If someone can, calculate the fall in water, maybe that would be a bonus to common feats.
2. Make as choice of scaling AP to Dura like in Makoto's case for example or make AP ≠ to Dura
3. Do something with Apollo Justice tanking explosion, cause feat still pretty much exist.
4. Still find an answer does the "informational preparation" can be counted as non combat applicable, or it's only for combat.
5. Maybe made a profile for Apollo Justice cause guy pretty much deserved it.
6. Maybe discuss Maya's magatama, at least cause I don't know how it have mind manipulation.
 
1) I don't think we have the formula for calculating falls in water.
2) I'm very much of the opinion that it shouldn't scale, considering there's a lot of anti-feats that make even just the durability iffy, but unlike Danganronpa, where people hurt and kill each other very often, that happens less to Wright, and usually it's very mundane stuff.
3) It may exist but does anyone scale to it, anyway? Can you give me a link to it, actually? Haven't played those games.
4) I suppose one could ask in the questions subforum.
5) I'm not against it, but it's unrelated to the purpose of this CRT.

As for the Magatama stuff, and I'm quoting from the wiki, so technically not official, but should be fairly accurate.

"The magatama has the special ability to allow its possessor to see Psyche-Locks, which appear when someone is hiding information from the user. After presenting the magatama to someone, the user can proceed to break the person's Psyche-Locks, using evidence to piece together a portion of the secret being hidden. More deeply buried secrets have more Psyche-Locks on them, which usually means that they are tougher to unlock. Once all of one's Psyche-Locks are broken, that person will finally admit to the truth and will reveal his or her secret in full, elaborating on what he or she knows about the subject in question. This information could be in the form of evidence or dialogue, and it is often helpful in court. Red Psyche-Locks are usually broken in this manner, with some exceptions."

It's hard for me to tell if the person will reveal their secret because Wright's exposed their lie and they feel shame for it, which is Social Influencing, though a slightly supernatural stuff, or it's just an effect of the Locks being broken, which would indeed be limited Mind Manip.

"The rarer black Psyche-Locks are more difficult to break. Only two people, Kristoph Gavin and Athena Cykes, are known to have had black Psyche-Locks, and they are not broken through normal means. Instead, the black Psyche-Locks represent a subconscious secret, and forceful attempts to remove them can cause permanent damage to a person's soul. The black Psyche-Locks appear in times of extreme trauma or simply due to sheer paranoia. Kristoph Gavin never had his broken, while Athena Cykes's locks were broken by determining that she had stabbed her mother's killer, and not her mother, as she had previously thought."

This is limited Soul Manipulation, actually. Anyway, this was the sort Wright has. There's another kind of Magatama, red, which can split a spirit from the body channeling it. That'd be soul manipulation too.
 
And also why Phoenix have on his arsenal(Notable attack/techniques) items which he used only as eviedences in cases. Instead of that it must be his magatama and his "Objection!" ,"Hold it! ", "Take that!" and a technique which a bit close to AJ's bracelet.
 
Also, apparently the "Spirit Severing Technique" was only mentioned once, and never used, by a person who ended up being the murderer (Morgan Fey) and might have lied about it. Considering it takes a special Magatama for it, I think that might be the case.

Oleggator said:
And also why Phoenix have on his arsenal(Notable attack/techniques) items which he used only as eviedences in cases. Instead of that it must be his magatama and his "Objection!" ,"Hold it! ", "Take that!" and a technique which a bit close to AJ's bracelet.
Click to expand...
I agree with removing trial items. Sometimes, he's not even allowed to carry them at all.

I don't think Objections are Attacks/Techniques. It's something he does often, but it's not a combat-related ability.
 
Well, Makoto have non combat applicable ability as notable attack and techniques, so I think wright can have it a bit.
 
Uh... no he doesn't? His NA&T are his talents, which are listed for every Ultimate, and do have abilities, Ultimate Lucky Student is Luck Manip and Ultimate Hope is Social Influencing.

Phoenix Wright literally just says the word "Objection" loudly. It's not a special technique. It's not a technique at all, it's just a part of the trial system in the AA world. Everyone can do it, there's nothing special about it, I could do it just as well as any attorney in the series. It's just shouting a word.
 
Well....
His court techniques is basically a part of social influence techniques... But from other hand then Makoto had "No that's wrong" as his techniques, so yeah, you have a point here.
 
Have you reached any new conclusions here?
 
Armorchompy said:
1) I don't think we have the formula for calculating falls in water.
2) I'm very much of the opinion that it shouldn't scale, considering there's a lot of anti-feats that make even just the durability iffy, but unlike Danganronpa, where people hurt and kill each other very often, that happens less to Wright, and usually it's very mundane stuff.
3) It may exist but does anyone scale to it, anyway? Can you give me a link to it, actually? Haven't played those games.
4) I suppose one could ask in the questions subforum.
5) I'm not against it, but it's unrelated to the purpose of this CRT.

As for the Magatama stuff, and I'm quoting from the wiki, so technically not official, but should be fairly accurate.

"The magatama has the special ability to allow its possessor to see Psyche-Locks, which appear when someone is hiding information from the user. After presenting the magatama to someone, the user can proceed to break the person's Psyche-Locks, using evidence to piece together a portion of the secret being hidden. More deeply buried secrets have more Psyche-Locks on them, which usually means that they are tougher to unlock. Once all of one's Psyche-Locks are broken, that person will finally admit to the truth and will reveal his or her secret in full, elaborating on what he or she knows about the subject in question. This information could be in the form of evidence or dialogue, and it is often helpful in court. Red Psyche-Locks are usually broken in this manner, with some exceptions."

It's hard for me to tell if the person will reveal their secret because Wright's exposed their lie and they feel shame for it, which is Social Influencing, though a slightly supernatural stuff, or it's just an effect of the Locks being broken, which would indeed be limited Mind Manip.

"The rarer black Psyche-Locks are more difficult to break. Only two people, Kristoph Gavin and Athena Cykes, are known to have had black Psyche-Locks, and they are not broken through normal means. Instead, the black Psyche-Locks represent a subconscious secret, and forceful attempts to remove them can cause permanent damage to a person's soul. The black Psyche-Locks appear in times of extreme trauma or simply due to sheer paranoia. Kristoph Gavin never had his broken, while Athena Cykes's locks were broken by determining that she had stabbed her mother's killer, and not her mother, as she had previously thought."

This is limited Soul Manipulation, actually. Anyway, this was the sort Wright has. There's another kind of Magatama, red, which can split a spirit from the body channeling it. That'd be soul manipulation too.
Click to expand...
1) Well, that's why I used "if" on it.
2) Well, I can remember only Franzizka's whip as anti feat, but even though he got hit by car and fall to river after Franzizka's combinations, although I think her whip can be probably considered as 9C.
3) Here's feat at 0:33: Likely Wright, Edgeworth, Gumshoe and Shelly de killer can be scalable to it, since Apollo not that far. And before a question, Apollo was in explosion epicenter, there's a witness statement about it.
4) Then I'll give it a try.
5) Also would ask how to made a profiles.
6) Well, I think it's ok then to be mind manipulation stuff, but wanted more exactly what kind of mind hax it would be called (I'm guessing some kind of telepathy). And I guess then we can add limited soul manipulation to magatama users.
 
Antvasima said:
Have you reached any new conclusions here?
Click to expand...
Kinda, not really. Oleggator is making somewhat fair points, though.
Oleggator said:
2) Likely Wright, Edgeworth, Gumshoe and Shelly de killer can be scalable to it, since Apollo not that far. And before a question, Apollo was in explosion epicenter, there's a witness statement about it.
Click to expand...
We don't use the anime, different canon. However, that's a huge explosion, being at the epicenter of it would at least be 9-A and very possibly 8-C. So, outlier.
Oleggator said:
5) Also would ask how to made a profiles.
Click to expand...
I don't mean any offense here, but I don't think your English is good enough to make a profile. I can try to help, though.
Oleggator said:
6) Well, I think it's ok then to be mind manipulation stuff, but wanted more exactly what kind of mind hax it would be called (I'm guessing some kind of telepathy). And I guess then we can add limited soul manipulation to magatama users.
Click to expand...
It's both Limited Mind Manip and Telepathy, yeah.
 
Armorchompy said:
We don't use the anime, different canon. However, that's a huge explosion, being at the epicenter of it would at least be 9-A and very possibly 8-C. So, outlier.

I don't mean any offense here, but I don't think your English is good enough to make a profile. I can try to help, though.

It's both Limited Mind Manip and Telepathy, yeah.
Click to expand...
Well...
1) It's actually a game cutscene of 5-th part so it's canon. The game itself is just 3D. But yeah kinda outlier until there would be another feat. But in other way can a bit defend 9B of Wright.
2)Would be glad here. The only thing where would be a problem I think with Apollo's bracelet, or in other way, how ability would be considered, though Wright have a weakened kind of this ability without bracelet, so the answer would be important even if Apollo wouldn't have a profile. Probably enhanced senses.
3) And another addition to note.
 
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About, preparation: Getting a bit of info, at this moment the answer I got is pretty much it can be used for non combat.
About decides of 9B, 9C or 10A tier: I think we must try to see the opinion of other persons. So @Ugarik , @Lord_JJJ , @DarkDragonMedeus , and other people who are interested cause I don't know who's here can help, any thoughts?
 
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You're not staff, so you didn't tag them.

I think an 8-C explosion is a bit too much to argue for 9-B durability. I mean, I get the reasoning, but consider that'd be over a thousand times higher than any feat Wright has.

If preparation can be non-combat-related, then he should definitely have it.
 
Thx for helping out.
Then I shortly will write for us what to change on Wright's and other profiles.
1. Change every character From 9B to 10A, but leave 9B durability.
2. Change LS from class 5 to average human level.
3. Give preparation to Wright and Edgeworth(since Edgeworth is also can do that kind of preparation in some cases)
4. Change mind hax with magatama, to limited mind and soul hax with magatama with giving a reasoning.
5. Delete his Poison manipulation and his eviedence from equipment, but give magatama, luminol and powder as equipment.
6. Give a note about explosion feat and until there wouldn't be a second feat consider the feat as outlier.
7. For Gumshoe give at least 10A since he's stronger than Wright and for Franzizka give 9C with her whip.
That's everything I remembered at the moment.
 
Would wait for some rate, if that's all, then I pretty much can do the changes with good acknowledge of the verse. Also minor enhanced senses for Wright due to have a minor ability of Apollo's bracelet, which as I understood, gives enhanced vision.
 
Lord_JJJ said:
I personally still prefer them scale to 9B like Dangonranpa but I have no problem with 10A AP and 9B for only durability
Click to expand...
Well, Phoenix's profile used to say he could harm himself. I don't remember such instance, but he could scale if he ever did it
 
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