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I just finished the episode...We're going to need that CRT.
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WandaVision MCU Spoiler Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Dalesean027
- Start date
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Wanda sees quicksilver moving and stops tommy moving at the sound of speed. She can also expand her hex field
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I’m not sure if we can use this as a upgrade, because this would be considered a crossover wouldn’t it.
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Not sure why that would effect the validity of it all, it's literally what phase 4 is about, opening the multiverse and besides that doesn't change what's been presented on screen and it doesn't contradict anything either. And the upgrades I'm talking about literally don't involve quicksilver are purely for Wanda with her new hax and abilities as well as range.
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You know what I don’t understand how crossovers work on this wiki. But you should included a possible speed upgrade, since we do see Wanda easily perceive and even tag Quicksilver.
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An upgrade of any magnitude in terms of Evan Peters quicksilver would only be viable if we scale from his page or at least specifically his speed which would be a massive boost for the main cast.
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I don’t know why we would assume the main cast would scale to this, especially when we see that Wanda has gotten such a massive amp and thus far no one seems to scale to this version of her.
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This isnt a crossover
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Yeah it only scales to Wanda for now but I said the main cast because eventually they'll have to fight side by side again or even against each other either way it's bound to happen so the main cast will eventually be buffed but yeah as of now only Wanda scales. Also um what do we do about her range it she kinda extended the pocket dimension past the town by several miles.
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This isn't a crossover. This Quicksilver has the same history as ATJ's Quicksilver, not the Foxmen QS. Even his speed is portrayed the same way as ATJ's speed.
Unless he performs the same fears as Fox QS, he shouldn't be scaled.
On another note, Speed and Wiccan finally use their powers this arc.
Also seeing how this show gave Vision superspeed, I wish MCU Thor had visible superspeed (not from frame scaling) too. Like have him move like a bolt of lightning or something. Same for Hulk & Thanos. There's always something so disappointing seeing them moving at the same speeds as people like Captain America.
Unless he performs the same fears as Fox QS, he shouldn't be scaled.
On another note, Speed and Wiccan finally use their powers this arc.
Also seeing how this show gave Vision superspeed, I wish MCU Thor had visible superspeed (not from frame scaling) too. Like have him move like a bolt of lightning or something. Same for Hulk & Thanos. There's always something so disappointing seeing them moving at the same speeds as people like Captain America.
Valiant_Abyss
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So Wanda gets biological manip on the molecular level (matter manip) and can expand the pocket dimension at will. Wonderful. Today's episode also gives reassurance that this was all started by Wanda and that she's in near complete control. Agnes very clearly stating that it's Wanda affecting their minds and keeping them trapped and Wanda very clearly expanded and manipulated the barrier at her will alone. She also pulled off some Xavier mind stop type shit just before she rapidly and massively expanded the pocket reality.
In terms of plot...
Agnes is pretty much at this point blatantly recognized as a main character in the show, Pietro and Wanda are now aware about their accent disappearance, Hayward has his own personal agenda and is holding buttloads of data and info to himself alone, 99% of SWORD's agents on the case just got swallowed up into "WestView," Billy and Tommy are turning into their comic counterparts, Pietro was singled out in the opening where his name was the only one marked as "[Insert Character] as himself," Billy seems to have an odd connection to the world of WestView where he's somehow able to sense stuff that Wanda cannot, and Vision may have just died.
In terms of plot...
Agnes is pretty much at this point blatantly recognized as a main character in the show, Pietro and Wanda are now aware about their accent disappearance, Hayward has his own personal agenda and is holding buttloads of data and info to himself alone, 99% of SWORD's agents on the case just got swallowed up into "WestView," Billy and Tommy are turning into their comic counterparts, Pietro was singled out in the opening where his name was the only one marked as "[Insert Character] as himself," Billy seems to have an odd connection to the world of WestView where he's somehow able to sense stuff that Wanda cannot, and Vision may have just died.
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During which part (or what time at.) of the episode did occurr the points that are the currently planned basises for speed scaling?
@Crimson_Shadow101:
@Crimson_Shadow101:
I'm not entirely convinced. Wanda still acts unsure how this all started. Also, the fact there are people & parts of the town where nothing is happening or no activity means she isn't controlling them; Even if she told them "do nothing" -rather than them lacking instructions to act on- I doubt she'd be giving them that constantly.
& yes, she expanded the border, but that doesn't mean she controls everything in it constantly, just that she has a greater range of influence. She largely did it to get Vision back inside.
There's also the Westview sign changing; It no longer shows a population number, but considering the other changes & also the director's statements....
& yes, she expanded the border, but that doesn't mean she controls everything in it constantly, just that she has a greater range of influence. She largely did it to get Vision back inside.
There's also the Westview sign changing; It no longer shows a population number, but considering the other changes & also the director's statements....
I'm also questioning that this is Fox-'verse Pietro. Does his dialogue about his backstory line up? Are his feats on this level?
Not to mention, his characterization is suspect as heck, no pun intended. All those references to Hell, him being a bad influence, his asking Wanda about her powers, IIRC.... It's possible it's an impostor, or a possession or something.
Not to mention, his characterization is suspect as heck, no pun intended. All those references to Hell, him being a bad influence, his asking Wanda about her powers, IIRC.... It's possible it's an impostor, or a possession or something.
Valiant_Abyss
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She literally just told Pietro that she was feeling lonely. People being motionless isn't exactly a good point for debunking either especially when we saw Agnes near the border who was barely conscious being freed by Vision and directly stating that it's Wanda's doing. There's also a perfect explanation for why they would have less motion being Agnes directly stating that Wanda doesn't want to let them leave and as such people near the edge of the pocket reality are virtually motionless as to stop them from even attempting to leave.
She's still actively controlling what is and what is not swallowed into the grounds of her own pocket reality. Her motive for doing it doesn't change the feat at all.
She's still actively controlling what is and what is not swallowed into the grounds of her own pocket reality. Her motive for doing it doesn't change the feat at all.
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Yeah, but it contradicts her saying she couldn't control everyone & was opposed to the idea of Vision believing she controls everyone & has no idea how she did it at all. Not to mention there were people stuck on loop -Why would she be worried about someone nowhere near the border trying to leave?-, even early in Vision's stroll through town, & near the edge, light fixtures failing. I'd think that means those lights need Wanda's influence to function, as a part of Westview.
Yes, but pulling on the skin of a balloon isn't directly moving the air particles inside the balloon, nor is blowing air into it directly controlling the air particles either. Not to mention she WASN'T actively controlling what is or isn't swallowed; EVERYTHING from cars to signs to poles to auto stores went into the barrier, despite that half of it probably wasn't stuff Wanda cared about, especially not with Vision dead! It all got transformed, indiscriminately, so there's not much reason to believe she's picking what to transform or not transform.
Just because she changed Westview's boundaries doesn't mean she's actively controlling everything in it at once, she's just picking where her influence takes effect. I think the idea that she's actively controlling & picking goes against what she's claimed so far & the above.
Also, I don't know why her telling him she felt lonely is the only part of their backstory sharing you recall. Pietro mentions parts of his & she mentions other parts of hers. Making sure they are who we think they are is important before we go believing this is Fox-Pietro.
Yes, but pulling on the skin of a balloon isn't directly moving the air particles inside the balloon, nor is blowing air into it directly controlling the air particles either. Not to mention she WASN'T actively controlling what is or isn't swallowed; EVERYTHING from cars to signs to poles to auto stores went into the barrier, despite that half of it probably wasn't stuff Wanda cared about, especially not with Vision dead! It all got transformed, indiscriminately, so there's not much reason to believe she's picking what to transform or not transform.
Just because she changed Westview's boundaries doesn't mean she's actively controlling everything in it at once, she's just picking where her influence takes effect. I think the idea that she's actively controlling & picking goes against what she's claimed so far & the above.
Also, I don't know why her telling him she felt lonely is the only part of their backstory sharing you recall. Pietro mentions parts of his & she mentions other parts of hers. Making sure they are who we think they are is important before we go believing this is Fox-Pietro.
With stuff like this, I think there's some risk of ambiguity, & it may be worthwhile to prolong CRTs until after the 3 remaining episodes air. If our info ends up being wrong, that's work we have to undo/redo.
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I don't think she's actively controlling everyone's action down to the last beat but maybe subconsciously she could be doing so but actively definitely a no however she definitely does have control over the dimension as a whole
Valiant_Abyss
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"Yeah, but it contradicts her saying she couldn't control everyone & was opposed to the idea of Vision believing she controls everyone & has no idea how she did it at all. Not to mention there were people stuck on loop -Why would she be worried about someone nowhere near the border trying to leave?-, even early in Vision's stroll through town, & near the edge, light fixtures failing. I'd think that means those lights need Wanda's influence to function, as a part of Westview."
Wanda told Vision she doesn't know how this all started and that she can't control everyone. When Pietro convinced her that he can be trusted, specifically saying "and I'm not your husband," she said something entirely different that what she told Vision. Wanda contradicts herself here. How do you know they aren't near the border? Darcy said and showed on the computer screen that as people get closer to the border their movement appears smaller. This is even shown as vision progresses through the town.
"Yes, but pulling on the skin of a balloon isn't directly moving the air particles inside the balloon, nor is blowing air into it directly controlling the air particles either."
The balloon analogy doesn't work here. There's an enormous difference between an energy field that absorbs, mindhaxes, and transmutes anything that it comes in contact with than a piece of rubber with air in it. It's a giant forcefield that she's expanding omni directionally.
"Not to mention she WASN'T actively controlling what is or isn't swallowed; EVERYTHING from cars to signs to poles to auto stores went into the barrier, despite that half of it probably wasn't stuff Wanda cared about, especially not with Vision dead! It all got transformed, indiscriminately, so there's not much reason to believe she's picking what to transform or not transform."
Let's turn this around. Why would she care what she absorbed when she made it very clear she had no idea where Vision was? Wanda asked Billy, and he answered he saw soldiers. Wanda's familiarity with SWORD could easily point to her believing they may have taken him back, hence why she just decided to consume everything in the vicinity. The "why" here is completely irrelevant when we can easily point to her VISUALLY doing all of this and performing the actions. You can argue whatever you want with what ended up being consumed and what didn't but you cannot deny that Wanda blatantly stopped the motions of everyone, let out a giant blast of red hex, and immediately after we see the border expand rapidly. Whether she's consciously controlling this or not, it's impossible to deny that this is the doing of HER POWERS.
"Just because she changed Westview's boundaries doesn't mean she's actively controlling everything in it at once, she's just picking where her influence takes effect. I think the idea that she's actively controlling & picking goes against what she's claimed so far & the above."
So you admit that the pocket reality is her influence and she's actively choosing where it takes effect? Great, glad to see we're in agreement. The idea that she's controlling everything, as backed by the very citizens she's affecting, visual aftereffects, context and tone towards people she deems as getting in the way, and feats blatantly shown being done by her is going up against a single conversation with a person Wanda has reason to lie to, backed by out of context takes on feats performed by Wanda.
"Also, I don't know why her telling him she felt lonely is the only part of their backstory sharing you recall. Pietro mentions parts of his & she mentions other parts of hers. Making sure they are who we think they are is important before we go believing this is Fox-Pietro."
Her telling Pietro she was feeling lonely was not something I just "recalled" nor is it the only thing I recall from their conversations. Wanda saying she was feeling lonely was a direct response to Pietro asking how did she do what she did, as opposed to Wanda answering MUCH differently when being interrogated on a similar topic by Vision.
Wanda told Vision she doesn't know how this all started and that she can't control everyone. When Pietro convinced her that he can be trusted, specifically saying "and I'm not your husband," she said something entirely different that what she told Vision. Wanda contradicts herself here. How do you know they aren't near the border? Darcy said and showed on the computer screen that as people get closer to the border their movement appears smaller. This is even shown as vision progresses through the town.
"Yes, but pulling on the skin of a balloon isn't directly moving the air particles inside the balloon, nor is blowing air into it directly controlling the air particles either."
The balloon analogy doesn't work here. There's an enormous difference between an energy field that absorbs, mindhaxes, and transmutes anything that it comes in contact with than a piece of rubber with air in it. It's a giant forcefield that she's expanding omni directionally.
"Not to mention she WASN'T actively controlling what is or isn't swallowed; EVERYTHING from cars to signs to poles to auto stores went into the barrier, despite that half of it probably wasn't stuff Wanda cared about, especially not with Vision dead! It all got transformed, indiscriminately, so there's not much reason to believe she's picking what to transform or not transform."
Let's turn this around. Why would she care what she absorbed when she made it very clear she had no idea where Vision was? Wanda asked Billy, and he answered he saw soldiers. Wanda's familiarity with SWORD could easily point to her believing they may have taken him back, hence why she just decided to consume everything in the vicinity. The "why" here is completely irrelevant when we can easily point to her VISUALLY doing all of this and performing the actions. You can argue whatever you want with what ended up being consumed and what didn't but you cannot deny that Wanda blatantly stopped the motions of everyone, let out a giant blast of red hex, and immediately after we see the border expand rapidly. Whether she's consciously controlling this or not, it's impossible to deny that this is the doing of HER POWERS.
"Just because she changed Westview's boundaries doesn't mean she's actively controlling everything in it at once, she's just picking where her influence takes effect. I think the idea that she's actively controlling & picking goes against what she's claimed so far & the above."
So you admit that the pocket reality is her influence and she's actively choosing where it takes effect? Great, glad to see we're in agreement. The idea that she's controlling everything, as backed by the very citizens she's affecting, visual aftereffects, context and tone towards people she deems as getting in the way, and feats blatantly shown being done by her is going up against a single conversation with a person Wanda has reason to lie to, backed by out of context takes on feats performed by Wanda.
"Also, I don't know why her telling him she felt lonely is the only part of their backstory sharing you recall. Pietro mentions parts of his & she mentions other parts of hers. Making sure they are who we think they are is important before we go believing this is Fox-Pietro."
Her telling Pietro she was feeling lonely was not something I just "recalled" nor is it the only thing I recall from their conversations. Wanda saying she was feeling lonely was a direct response to Pietro asking how did she do what she did, as opposed to Wanda answering MUCH differently when being interrogated on a similar topic by Vision.
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Also do have we compiled any feats and clips of them to startup the CRT or are we still going to be in discussion over exactly how much control Wanda has over the individuals in the reality because on that front I'm leaning more towards what @Crimson_Shadow101 has argued and believe it to be the most logical interpretation with his current points
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I think it is quite blatantly obvious at this point that Wanda is the one controlling the pocket reality with everthing she showed so far, she "being unsure how it started" doesn't change that fact, whether she was or is being manipulated/influenced into doing it by someone else or not doesn't really matter.
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I think it's fine to wait on the CRT until after the remaining three episodes have aired.
Valiant_Abyss
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Though, I will say I agree with this course of action but for different reasons. I firmly believe that this is all the doing of Wanda's powers and as such is worthy of going on her profile, but clearly today's episode showed me that Wanda isn't done performing feats and I don't wanna have to deal with Wanda pulling off a new and major hax in the middle of awaiting approval and revisions for a CRT that already includes a handful of new abilities and more potency to her existing hax.
Valiant_Abyss
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It's gonna be annoying to have to wait another month for this CRT but I'd rather just get it done smoothly and in one go.
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Okay then if we're in agreeance let's ride this out for the last 3 episodes because thinking on things even if it is all Wanda and there's some other force at work still we'd probably have to develop a profile for said character if that's the case as well as possibly doing a CRT on Dr.Strange if he does indeed appear in the last episode and do anything of note like literally everyone is speculating .
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Don't forget we need to make profiles for Speed and Wiccan as well.
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Yeah
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That'll be interesting. I do wonder if any of their speed feats are worth calculating so far. Although I'd assume those are dwarfed by Fox-Quicksilver scaling if it ends up being applicable.
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Wanda states that Tommy can break the sound barrier and Billy stops him casually sooo
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We could honestly give them bare bones of a page with unknown feats all accept for speed and reactions aside from their abilities they showcase over these last few episodes unless we see some greater feats in regards for their AP and durability.
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Presuming Wanda isn't using hyperbole (Some stuff points to her kids being out of her control.) that might be worth looking into.Wanda states that Tommy can break the sound barrier and Billy stops him casually sooo
In theory, Speed's.... Erm, speed, might be an option for getting AP/SS/Durability by Kinetic Energy.
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I doubt that it's hyperbole just due to the fact that she consistently says that each time one of these characters who has displayed super speed uses it she's either said they can move at the speed of sound or break the sound barrier with them casually moving not in combat ofc but rather just like moving around it casually and she's said that pretty consistently actually. Also could easily be supported by the fact that she's the only one who could perceive their motions when they were running around town aside from pietro.
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Y'all are being false caution.
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- #193
elaborate please
?
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- #197
Yeah she definitely just took his body from Sword Quicksilver is very much different so idk what they're talking about
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I hope not as that kinda ruins the entire impact of the Infinity Saga
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IIRC weren't SWORD able to track Vision's movements in the town by tracking decaying Vibranium (At least that's what Darcy said when she uncovered SWORD's hidden files)
