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Immeasurable Speed Sonic, time to PERISH

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Basically Solaris occupies a 3D space, that's his body you attack.
But that 3-D space and Solaris's 3D attacks are spread across an entire timeline.
 
How would they not be immeasurable via dodging, if you don't mind me asking? We know Solaris is shooting and launching its attacks in nearly every direction, as the Hedgehogs are facing different sides of Solaris, yet the very same attacks came hit them each at the same time. Even if Super Sonic were to dodge a meteor right in front of him, for example, another meteor from a different point in time could still hit him, regardless.
I also don't see how the attacks couldn't be spatially omnipresent, but I could be missing something.
 
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JJSliderman said:
The dodging I guess was deemed as these attacks being temporally and not spatially omnipresent, meaning that they could be dodging by moving elsewhere in space.
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But we clearly see that they WEREN'T moving somewhere else in space. They can go in the exact same spot where Solaris's attacks used to be without getting hurt. So what the hell is going on here? Also, what happened to Sonic's feat of hitting Solaris's core before the ladder could react? That was part of the reasoning behind his old immeasurable explanation, and the only debunk attempt I've seen for it is that temporally omnipresent beings don't necessarily have immeasurable movement speed by virtue of this alone. I need to see the thread where that change was made because I can't find it and I don't understand the reasoning behind it. Solaris should still have immeasurable reaction speed or at the VERY LEAST perceive events the same way an immeasurable character would. The fact that Sonic can fly into Solaris repeatidly before the ladder can block his assault with one swing of his arm or even set up an energy barrier should make Sonic's speed immeasurable. How else is he supposed to blitz someone who knows exactly what he's gonna do at any given point in time no matter how specific? Seriously, if Super Sonic wasn't immeasurable, Solaris would logically be able to know down to the most excruciating detail what Sonic is up to over 3 000 000 years before he does it and yet he still got hit? Repeatidly? That would imply Solaris is a complete idiot, and he's supposed to have the mind of Mephiles, so that can't be it either
 
JJSliderman said:
I guess Solaris is going to be downgraded from Immeasurable.

Honestly it feels a bit cheap to me but, meh.
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I'm not calling anyone out on bias or anything, but it does feel REALLY cheap. Can't we discuss this further? I know this already went on for a while, but we can't just say "**** it" and remove it just because we're tired. Especially when most of the conversation leaned in favor of pro-immeasurable
 
Kind of a shame the whole thing about Solaris being a super-dimensional lifeform doesn't qualify as him transcending time and space, that would have helped.
 
Temporal omnipresence doesn't reward any form of speed, omnipresence in general doesn't actually give any form of speed. So the hedgehogs can't really scale to it.
 
You know what I mean. I explained it before. I know we disagree but I was more referencing the currently applied scaling on his page.
 
Like I said, I don't see why we can apply this when this is the only immeasurable feat in the games and Super Sonic has repeatedly struggled to come close to this speed in every other instance.

The staff already has issues with it, many people off-site do, and it's the only feat that supports it to my knowledge. We've called stuff with way more evidence outliers and deemed them unfit to use as a rating so I don't see why this is any different especially given consistent anti-feats from literally every other appearance. Unless there's more? If it's some Base Sonic feat I don't think I have to explain why it's clearly not usable.

Switching between characters as a support for his attacks "transcending time" in a boss fight where game mechanics are at play seems kinda like reaching to me, but like, whatever.

That's all I can really say about this.
 
For me, I still side with immeasurable speed. Solaris being temporally omnipresent seems to be a given, and I believe immeasurable speed to be the only option in which the Hedgehogs could legitimately avoid, catch, and counter Solaris' attacks.
 
Foxthefox1000 said:
Like I said, I don't see why we can apply this when this is the only immeasurable feat in the games and Super Sonic has repeatedly struggled to come close to this speed in every other instance.

The staff already has issues with it, many people off-site do, and it's the only feat that supports it to my knowledge. We've called stuff with way more evidence outliers and deemed them unfit to use as a rating so I don't see why this is any different especially given consistent anti-feats from literally every other appearance. Unless there's more? If it's some Base Sonic feat I don't think I have to explain why it's clearly not usable.

Switching between characters as a support for his attacks "transcending time" in a boss fight where game mechanics are at play seems kinda like reaching to me, but like, whatever.

That's all I can really say about this.
Click to expand...
The outlier point isn't legit here, sonic has a variable tier and here he was amped by positive emotions or smth.
 
First paragraph is irrelevant, it was explained this was Sonic's peak

I don't care about "off-site people" just arguments that aren't adressed, drop the "vague", "other verses" and similar arguments

Noone used "trancend time" argument, strawmen like this is what makes the thread never reach a conclusion
 
Immeasurable speed does not help one avoid temporally omnipresent attacks
Depictions on screen of the battle itself does not show anything that indicates immeasurable speed
That's essentially what the argument against immeasurable is.
 
I already summarized my points in a long post in the very first page, however Greenshifter could make one summarizing his points
 
Acauasality Type 2, but Sonic clearly has a past in Classic Sonic so that's not it either.
 
Right, so, that's the issue., right? We need to find what they used to dodge, catch, and counter Solaris with. As I mentioned, I believe it's immeasurable speed, but I'm still happy to hear alternatives.
 
And I'm saying that Immeasurable isn't the answer. And just because we don't know what it is, that doesn't mean we should just go with something that is just wrong.
 
Because even if the present self moves out of the way, immeasurable speed doesn't allow you to move your past self out of the way of an attack. So, past sonic would still get hit. Now immeasurable speed does allow them to dodge after being struck (as strange as that sounds) but they're never depicted as doing anything of the like so there is nothing to back it up there either.
Theuser789 said:
Choosing "nothing" would just be as wrong in that case
Click to expand...
I disagree. When you don't know the answer to a question, you just say you don't know the answer to the question also known as Unknown
 
Not really, just putting a big question mark is just being lazy, I would ratter say that Sonic being in his super form gives him type 2 acasuality than say unknown to a feat I know there's a answer to
 
"They can dodge an attack that already has been struck..." VS Battles itself says this, unless I'm mistaken and have the wrong website.
 
Theuser789 said:
Not really, just putting a big question mark is just being lazy, I would ratter say that Sonic being in his super form gives him type 2 acasuality than say unknown to a feat I know there's a answer to
Click to expand...
But since both Classic and Modern Sonic are shown battling alongside one another so that doesn't seem to agree with it either.
Theuser789 said:
Except that their past selfs not being struck would be a depiction of it, according to your rules, since that's a attack "already struck" that they dodged, no?
Click to expand...
No, no it wouldn't. They would first have to react to getting hit, and then be shown dodging. Since they're never shown doing either, immeasurable isn't supported.
 
Duedate8898 said:
But since both Classic and Modern Sonic are shown battling alongside one another so that doesn't seem to agree with it either.

No, no it wouldn't. They would first have to react to getting hit, and then be shown dodging. Since they're never shown doing either, immeasurable isn't supported.
Click to expand...
Classic Sonic had that retcon in Forces, but I wouldn't argue type 2 either

They react to the attacks, and they dodge it, being temporaly onmipresent means they past self would be hit, they aren't, therefore when we ser they dodging they did indeed actualy dodge the attack instead of a big question mark
 
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