Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 20

[Mizuki67]

As long as I’ve been reading Tensura, I haven’t seen any proof to suggest that Veldanava possesses Superior Qualitative. Even with the feat of Transcendence Beings, it wasn’t enough to get Superior Qualitative.

He has that one in all and all in one statement.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

Why ? Omnipresence and large size is a given

No Transduality, just Nonduality, no Large Size, and no Omnipresence.

 

[Mizuki67]

No Transduality, just Nonduality, no Large Size, and no Omnipresence.

Veldanava was omnipotent before he threw away his omnipotence why no large size and Omnipresence?

 

[Rizkykarbit]

He has that one in all and all in one statement.

That wasn’t enough for Superior Qualitative. ‘One in all and all in one’ only proves he was the Source of all things, and you can’t prove Superior Qualitative just with that.

 

[CodeCCLL]

@CodeCCLL @Berga14

This is just law manipulation, definitely not acausality type 4, the nature of law manipulation already changes/violates/influence the laws of nature, therefore, magic does not have to obey the laws of nature.

The ability to allow manipulating aspects of reality (or all of them), bypassing the known laws of physics.

This is already the wiki's definition of magic. Additionally, Ultimate Skill users who are already base Acausality Type 4 are not affected by magic unless combined with an Ultimate Skill.

 

[Mizuki67]

That wasn’t enough for Superior Qualitative. ‘One in all and all in one’ only proves he was the Source of all things, and you can’t prove Superior Qualitative just with that.

You do not need qs for nature 2 afaik. Some tier 2 have nature type 2

 

[Rizkykarbit]

Veldanava was omnipotent before he threw away his omnipotence why no large size and Omnipresence?

You need to prove he ever grabbed a whole Multiverse to claim Large Size, or prove he’s explicitly larger than the Multiverse. Being Omnipotent doesn’t mean he can get anything without proving he ever did that.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

You do not need qs for nature 2 afaik. Some tier 2 have nature type 2

You need to, because Transduality is treated the same as BDE type 2.

 

[Mizuki67]

You need to prove he ever grabbed a whole Multiverse to claim Large Size, or prove he’s explicitly larger than the Multiverse. Being Omnipotent doesn’t mean he can get anything without proving he ever did that.

This is not true. Not everything has to be spelt out for you.

 

[Berga14]

Isn't the "all in one" thing considerable omnipresence?

 

[Rizkykarbit]

This is not true. Not everything has to be spelt out for you.

Then i’ll take it as wank because it is not in accordance with the Large size explanation.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

This is just law manipulation, definitely not acausality type 4, the nature of law manipulation already changes/violates/influence the laws of nature, therefore, magic does not have to obey the laws of nature.

This is already the wiki's definition of magic. Additionally, Ultimate Skill users who are already base Acausality Type 4 are not affected by magic unless combined with an Ultimate Skill.

the normal law manipulation would be spirit magic which works on the same principle as natural phenomenon, Magic works on completely different laws than laws of the natural world
there is already a clear differentiation between Spirit magic and elemental magic in-verse

That wasn’t enough for Superior Qualitative. ‘One in all and all in one’ only proves he was the Source of all things, and you can’t prove Superior Qualitative just with that.

that will change under Ultima's revision for tier 0 tho, its only a matter of time

Isn't the "all in one" thing considerable omnipresence?

two translations :

When I was born, all that existed was my Will. It was complete, fully, without a missing piece to it, a flawless existence, where All was One and One was All in the World, I was the only thing in the World.

When I was born, there was only my Consciousness, which was complete and lacking nothing. The whole thing, the whole one - that is to say, there is only me in the World.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

Isn't the "all in one" thing considerable omnipresence?

Can we prove that?

We can’t just take all the sentences without analyzing them thoroughly. Based on those feats, it only proves that Veldanava is the source of everything. If we consider ‘All in one’ as an omnipresence feat, then God is not in emptiness because there is something else besides him, which also means he’s not the creator either.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Can we prove that?

We can’t just take all the sentences without analyzing them thoroughly. Based on those feats, it only proves that Veldanava is the source of everything. If we consider ‘All in one’ as an omnipresence feat, then God is not in emptiness because there is something else besides him, which also means he’s not the creator either.

we're not taking "All-in-one" alone as omnipresence, literally, the whole statement[in both translations] is filled with omnipresence type words
Also, he's not just all-in-one but also one-in-all

When I was born, all that existed was my Will. It was complete, fully, without a missing piece to it, a flawless existence, where All was One and One was All in the World, I was the only thing in the World.

When I was born, there was only my Consciousness, which was complete and lacking nothing. The whole thing, the whole one - that is to say, there is only me in the World.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

we're not taking "All-in-one" alone as omnipresence, literally, the whole statement[in both translations] is filled with omnipresence type words
Also, he's not just all-in-one but also one-in-all

Is he omnipresent within nothingness, stating that he is alone and only him, does it make him omnipresent within nothingness?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Is he omnipresent within nothingness, stating that he is alone and only him, does it make him omnipresent within nothingness?

.....
I think you're better reading Ultima's tier 0 revision thread rather than me saying it, cuz he explained it far better there what these kind of statements mean
But, if I had to say, it just means he's basically the whole cosmology, a Monad

 

[Rizkykarbit]

.....
I think you're better reading Ultima's tier 0 revision thread rather than me saying it, cuz he explained it far better there what these kind of statements mean
But, if I had to say, it just means he's basically the whole cosmology, a Monad

Then the cosmology already exists, that’s contradicts the statement ‘I was the only thing in the world’.

You should be learn about hyperbole, metaphor, similarity, etc.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Then the cosmology already exists, that’s contradicts the statement ‘I was the only thing in the world’.

You should be learn about hyperbole, metaphor, similarity, etc.

A hyperbole or metaphor would only be counted if it was just, him saying 'I was a flawless existence' or 'I was the only thing in the world'

And No, it doesn't contradict anything, because a Monad will be omnipresent even if the cosmology itself changes from not existing to existing, that's the nature of a monad by itself
Please read Ultima's thread regarding tier 0, otherwise you won't get a thing to what I'm saying.....

 

[Rizkykarbit]

A hyperbole or metaphor would only be counted if it was just, him saying 'I was a flawless existence' or 'I was the only thing in the world'

And No, it doesn't contradict anything, because a Monad will be omnipresent even if the cosmology itself changes from not existing to existing, that's the nature of a monad by itself
Please read Ultima's thread regarding tier 0, otherwise you won't get a thing to what I'm saying.....

I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to convey about the contradiction, and I don’t need to read the Ultima proposal because it hasn’t even been used yet.

I’ll end this and wait your thread

 

[Worthless]

I interpreted the statement as being the only thing in the world, hence the being the one-and-all statement.

 

[Worthless]

Does anyone know Jozaysmith’s thread about Transduality, Omnipresence, and Large Size type 9 Veldanava? I want to reevaluate that.

You should, because the scans used for omnipresence sound metaphorical and just mean being the only thing in existence, not that he is an omnipresence.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

I don’t think you understand what I’m trying to convey about the contradiction, and I don’t need to read the Ultima proposal because it hasn’t even been used yet.

The statement "I am the only thing in the world", given the prior context, means he was the world itself, lacking nothing as he was the singular whole, a monad.

And all the context around that statement is denoting its the "All was one and one was all" is taken to the literal

“Aren’t you the Creator? If you’re the god who created us, you ought a be able to guide the world the way you want it. Why do you need to ask someone like me?”“Ha-ha-ha! Well, because I’m not omnipotent. When I was born, all that existed was my will. It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it—a flawless existence, where all was one and one was all. I was the only thing in the world. Doesn’t that sound boring to you?” It made sense to Guy. It took someone like Guy to understand. Veldanava had deliberately cast away his own omnipotence .I’ll bet he did. If he could see how everything would turn out, it’d be the most boring thing ever. Based on his own experiences, he knew that fighting nothing but battles he knew he could win got old after a while. Everyone in the underworld (except one person) feared Guy. It had been ages upon ages since any of the other demons challenged him. All that, and not even he was any challenge to Veldanava. Guy could see why he had thrown out his omnipotence.

That was a surprise. But a dragon eccentric enough to throw away its omnipotent perfection out of boredom might just decide to do that, too. It made sense to Guy.“ I guess these things happen, huh?” he said. “Yeah. And like I said, normally I’d be happy for them. But that’s where the problems begin.”

Veldanava might’ve been a romantic, but he was also a perfectionist. Ideals were fine and all, but he had a colder side to him that immediately cut away things that had no chance of happening. Thanks to him throwing away omnipotence for the sake of experiencing genuine change, the ideal society he envisioned was no longer possible to implement. But to Veldanava, that was the right decision to make. A world that moved strictly on his own will didn’t seem remotely interesting to him

The para itself is clearly donating God[Prime Veldanava]'s "Omnipotence, Omnipresence[All was one and one was all], and Omniscience[if he could see how everything would turn out]"

There's a limit to how much we can assume a statement is a metaphor or not. For example, a statement like this :

“Didn’t you lose your powers, Minitz?” “Yes, I did,” came the blunt reply. “But once you get something the first time, the second time onward is far easier, isn’t it?” Caligulio gave that a half smile. “I’m envious. I lost my omnipotence, so… But at least I can still easily store magicules in my empty body. ”As if to prove it, Caligulio’s body was clearly teeming with power. He was well beyond the point of losing control, and blood was seeping out from his pores. His life would be in danger before long, but that mattered little in the labyrinth—he was equipped with an unlimited-use Resurrection Bracelet he had procured from parts unknown, so he didn’t care about the effect on his body.

Here the "Omnipotence" is clearly metaphoric, and simply referring to his immortal-ness due to the resurrection bracelet.

Even the vampires were springing into action. “Strange, huh? I feel so omnipotent right now…and it feels nice!” So shouted one of them, a smile on his face, as he leaped at Cornu and had the lower half of his body blown off. “Hyaaah! Taste the heat of my full-power energy beam!!”Not a single care was given as they pressed forward, died, revived, and repeated the process again.

And this time its clearly metaphoric in the sense that the villain is just exagertting his prowess. Additionally, we can see that in these statements, the only thing mentioned was "X is Omnipotent" but the other context doesn't even nearly suggest so
Meanwhile that's not the case of Veldanava, in case of whom the whole paragraph is filled with phrases denoting Omnipotence, Omniscience and Omnipresence

Also, additional note, "All was one" and "One was all" here clearly denotes that the he was the World itself[One was all] and the World itself was a part of him[All was One]

I’ll end this and wait your thread

sure

 

[Worthless]

Quoting a bunch of omnipotent statements doesn't really help your case. The phrase "The only thing in the world" strongly emphasizes that the statement about "all in one and one in all" is because he is the only existence in the world and nothing else besides him, hence the statement. At the very least, it shouldn't be a solid omnipresence, at least for me.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Quoting a bunch of omnipotent statements doesn't really help your case. The phrase "The only thing in the world" strongly emphasizes that the statement about "all in one and one in all" is because he is the only existence in the world and nothing else besides him, hence the statement. At the very least, it shouldn't be a solid omnipresence, at least for me.

The literal analogy that "he is the only existence in the world and nothing else besides him" has a double meaning, one that he was lonely in space, drifting in emptiness, etc., and the other that he was the world itself, he was all there is, that was why there was nothing besides him. And the supporting phrasing "where all was one and one was all" as well as "I was complete, not a missing piece to it, a flawless existence" supports the latter assumption

Additionally, the literal phrase "All in one and one in all" means a being without distinction, one that is indivisible, a complete existence, lacking nothing, an example is these set of characters

 

[Worthless]

The literal analogy that "he is the only existence in the world and nothing else besides him" has a double meaning, one that he was lonely in space, drifting in emptiness, etc., and the other that he was the world itself, he was all there is, that was why there was nothing besides him. And the supporting phrasing "where all was one and one was all"

Which is essentially just a fancy way of claiming he was all alone in an empty space. How can you claim someone to be the world while at the same time claiming he was the only solitary figure WITHIN it? Make it sense.

" as well as" i was complete, not a missing piece to it, a flawless existence" supports the latter assumption.

This doesn't support your assumption in any way. The only thing this backs up is the omnipotent statements that you've been quoting.

Additionally, the literal phrase "All in one and one in all" means a being without distinction, one that is indivisible, a complete existence, lacking nothing,

Which means he is the only thing in the world. If I were the only thing in nothingness, I could say the same thing about being "all is one and one is all," because the "one and all" that's in that space is none other than me, and this wouldn't make me omnipresent at all for obvious reasons.

an example is these set of characters

Which have nothing to do with the series at all.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

You right, Cthulhuverse has many more feats to prove it, not just statement “all in one, one in all”

Which have nothing to do with the series at all

 

[Worthless]

I have so many thoughts about these verse threads, mostly the threads made by Jay. Some of his threads which make me wonder how people accept them, given how terrible his justifications are. Can you all explain again how the verse is 2-A and Veldanava are dimensionally superior to the verse?

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I have so many thoughts about these verse threads, mostly the threads made by Jay. Some of his threads which make me wonder how people accept them, given how terrible his justifications are. Can you all explain again how the verse is 2-A and Veldanava are dimensionally superior to the verse?

2-A is very easy to understand if you just read the cosmology page.
2. The higher dimensional nature of God is simple to understand, From "one in all" statements, to Veldanava dragon being one with the world, and that the Great Spirits are a part of Him and all have omnipresent nature.

 

[Worthless]

2-A is very easy to understand if you just read the cosmology page.

Enlighten me because I don't see anything on that page that mentions an infinite number of universes or timelines within the verse, except for the scans that mention endless repetition, which obviously doesn't equate to 2-A

2. The higher dimensional nature of God is simple to understand, From "one in all" statements, to Veldanava dragon being one with the world, and that the Great Spirits are a part of Him and all have omnipresent nature.

And how does all that translate to a higher-dimensional nature for you?

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Enlighten me because I don't see anything on that page that mentions an infinite number of universes or timelines within the verse, except for the scans that mention endless repetition, which obviously doesn't equate to 2-A

And how does all that translate to a higher-dimensional nature for you?

As the page itself mentions, cycles exist before Chloe jumps, each cycle is the totality of the world and all that it contains, i.e. there is an infinite amount of "Worlds" with a capital W, which is obviously 2-A here and in China.

That and the Sub-Space having infinite size, at the same time containing within itself the many worlds that exist. What is also 2-A here and in China, is the logic used and approved in the imaginary space of WN Rimuru.

And Nature omnipresent throughout time = 4D Existence.

The Great Spirit of Time (which is part of God since everything is part of Him) is omnipresent throughout time as the cosmology page also explains.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

2. The higher dimensional nature of God is simple to understand, From "one in all" statements, to Veldanava dragon being one with the world, and that the Great Spirits are a part of Him and all have omnipresent nature.

It doesn’t make Veldanava have Higher 2-A because the cosmology is baseline 2-A. Veldanava can get higher 2-A if the cosmology more than baseline 2-A.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

It doesn’t make Veldanava have Higher 2-A because the cosmology is baseline 2-A. Veldanava can get higher 2-A if the cosmology more than baseline 2-A.

No one is talking about higher in 2-A here, only that omnipresence and higher dimensional existence are a fact.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

No one is talking about higher in 2-A here, only that omnipresence and higher dimensional existence are a fact.

My bad.

No Omnipresence or Higher Dimensional Existence for Veldanava.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

My bad.

No Omnipresence or Higher Dimensional Existence for Veldanava.

I mentioned above because he has both, if he did not have them, ¿how does the Great Spirit of time have them?, which like everything else, is only a part of Him.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

I mentioned above because he has both, if he did not have them, ¿how does the Great Spirit of time have them?, which like everything else, is only a part of Him.

their ontology is bound by feat they show.

Being the source of all reality builder does not necessarily mean possessing the properties created by those forms of reality. For example, the concept of dimension will not have a dimensional axis because it is the source of that axis. Veldanava has BDE, which means he can’t achieve HDE with through the addition of a dimensional axis; he can only achieve HDE with Reality>Fiction Transcendence.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

their ontology is bound by feat they show.

Being the source of all reality builder does not necessarily mean possessing the properties created by those forms of reality. For example, the concept of dimension will not have a dimensional axis because it is the source of that axis. Veldanava has BDE, which means he can’t achieve HDE with through the addition of a dimensional axis; he can only achieve HDE with Reality>Fiction Transcendence.

He is not just the source, all of reality is just a part of Him of His will and nature, which includes the Great Spirit of Time and His omnipresent nature, although I agree that having BDE and HDE at the same time doesn't make much sense, at least His Omnipresence must be maintained

(I had completely forgotten that Veldanava had BDE).

 

[Meli_Tempest]

their ontology is bound by feat they show.

Being the source of all reality builder does not necessarily mean possessing the properties created by those forms of reality. For example, the concept of dimension will not have a dimensional axis because it is the source of that axis. Veldanava has BDE, which means he can’t achieve HDE with through the addition of a dimensional axis; he can only achieve HDE with Reality>Fiction Transcendence.

And R>F transcendence will no longer give HDE since it is assumed to be beyond dimensional nature and instead you will get BDE type 2, so both (HDE and BDE) are mutually exclusive.

One cannot have higher dimensional nature and be devoid of it at the same time.

 

[Rizkykarbit]

He is not just the source, all of reality is just a part of Him of His will and nature, which includes the Great Spirit of Time and His omnipresent nature, although I agree that having BDE and HDE at the same time doesn't make much sense, at least His Omnipresence must be maintained

(I had completely forgotten that Veldanava had BDE).

Veldanava has Higher Dimensional Existence through Omnipresent, meaning he lacks nothing. If Veldanava lacks nothing, he cannot have BDE or Nonduality, only Omnipresence and HDE.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Veldanava has Higher Dimensional Existence through Omnipresent, meaning he lacks nothing. If Veldanava lacks nothing, he cannot have BDE or Nonduality, only Omnipresence and HDE.

Actually it is possible, after all part of that logic is the one used for a Monad, and in fact to think of God as a Pseudo-Monad given the statements is not far-fetched.

 

[Meli_Tempest]

The only thing that is not possible is HDE and BDE together.