Way Big Downgrade to 7A

[Greenshifter]

Hello everyone,

Currently Way Big's only tier 5 feat is this calc however as seen by this clip and this clip, Malware was the entire moon and thus the only thing that survived were pieces of him who then regenerated and went on to fight with Humungousaur. The other feats that kept Way Big at tier 5 were Way Big overpowering the Conquest Ray which as discussed in this thread was not the Conquest Ray which Emperor Milleous used against Way Big. And lastly everything that is mentioned in Albedo's "in his most powerful forms" key, which mentions Negative Way Big who does not exist, only in non-canon video-games and a broken link which can't be Negative Way Big oneshotting small planets unless it's in a video game.

And we have Zamasu Chan saying all this in another thread:

First off, at least 7-A comes from Diamondhead's one feat. It focuses on the kinetic energy needed to get launched that distance. However, not only was Diamondhead able to survive the crash but he didn't instantly shatter from a 5-A punch. The calc even has a low 5-B+ high end. Atomix also fights Malgax and again Diamondhead survived the punch.

That same calc also shows Gravattack creating a planetary black hole that's also 5-A. Gravattack is also an at least 7-A character.

Malware survives 5-A destruction and Humungousaur fights Malware twice.

Humungousaur also fights Trombipulor, who later faught Way Big, after growing in size.

All of the ultimate aliens survive attacks from a pissed off Way Big and recover with barely any injuries.

I'm probably missing some other stuff, which I'll get to later, but the point is the 7-A feat literally comes from a 5-A punch and there are other feats to support it.

Which is true and could either upgrade all at least-7A characters to low-5B+ based on the high end of Diamondhead's feat and put Way Big at 5B for being stronger than low-5B+ characters or it is more evidence to downgrade Way Big to 7A. Along with Feedback hurting fourth form Malware, Argit being able to knock out a Way Bad with his spikes and this has happened before against Ultimate Spidermonkey so it's not just a gag and guys like Whampire and Diamondhead fighting pretty evenly with Malgax who defeated Atomix in this episode at 8:11 and onwards.

Poll regarding videogames' canonicity

Vilgax Attacks is canon:

Cosmic Destruction and Vilgax Attacks are canon: Firestorm808, SkyeNyx

Neither are canon:

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

So what's the point of downgrading then to low 5-B+ based on a single feat if they have 5-A feats? There are 5 tier 5 anyway and could be used as supporting feats. Also I already explained why that calc is flaw because it ignores the power behind the punch and only focuses on the launching itself.

 

[Greenshifter]

The point is that I just debunked all tier 5 feats to my knowledge except the Diamondhead one so that means Way Big only upscales from everyone else.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

The only thing that was debunked was the Conquest Ray, the Malware feat you just disregarded.

 

[Greenshifter]

Well I'm arguing Malware doesn't scale to it because he was the moon and he only regenerated from the pieces that weren't blown up. I mean it's not because someone blows up the earth that each individual piece scales to the destruction of it and I think he required to get amped to become the size of the moon.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Uh, since when did Feedback harm Fourth Form Malware?? I just pointed this out in my Alien X thread (i'll get on it later).

According to Feedback's profile here, he only harmed second form Malware, whos only tier 8-7. 3rd and Fourth Form Malware are the forms that are tier 5 and the one that Way Big scales to. Your video for Feedback also doesn't work.

 

[Greenshifter]

Euhm the link works for me https://youtu.be/_UPHtaZjZIc, this one work?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Its blocked for me, for some reason.

 

[Greenshifter]

I'll get another link, hang on

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CPYIlcv4Da8 does this one work?

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Blocked.

 

[Greenshifter]

Lol, Euhm Google feedback vs Malware then? It's literally Teen Feedback's first appearance in the show so shouldn't be too hard to find...

 

[Greenshifter]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HbvlKlMu3hI Or this one in Turkish?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Either way, that isn't a feat we accept for Feedback currently. We only scale him to Malware's second form, not his 3rd and 4th forms. So either Feedback was never shown to fight Malware beyond his second form, the feat is an outlier if he did or Feedback should just be upgraded.

Also, just wanted to point this next thing out. Even if Malware's 5-A feat suddenly doesnt work out anymore, he would still be at least 5-C for literally being the moon (which is what you admit to in your OP).

 

[Greenshifter]

He got amped so he could become Galvan's moon tho it seems, also wouldn't this just give him a key of him being the moon and not really scale to anyone else?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

No, if you literally are a celestial object, thats an even better feat than creating or destroying one. And since Malware did that in his 2nd form, this feat at the absolute least would scale up to his 3rd and 4th forms.

 

[Andytrenom]

Being A celestial object is not at all A better feat than destroying or creating one, by that notion being A human would be A better feat than destroying A human body

 

[Firestorm808]

There are 2-3 phases/sizes to form 3 Malware. The first is comparable to Feedback. The next, Humungousaur. The next phase is comparable to Waybig.

 

[Greenshifter]

The following dialogue proves that Malware is only 5B with absorption (he amps himself with tech and energy that he finds):

Azmuth: Yes, but the rest is unaffected. However, it's only a matter of hours until Malware's feelers reach the planet's core. Once that happens, there will be no way to stop him from absorbing and corrupting everything. Malware himself will become a living planet, and a heavily armed one, at that.

However we have this statement of Malware himself in fourth form:

Feedback: Hey, everybody. Did you miss me?

Malware: The Conductoid? Pathetic. I destroyed you once before, and I'm a hundred times more powerful now!

This would put fourth form Malware at 100 times second form Malware who scales to OS Feedback, Fourarms, Cannonbolt and Diamondhead. Who will all be 7A if my OS revisions go through. So he will be 6C. At first I thought Way Big scaled to him, but he doesn't cause he put up no fight against him.

Here (and at 1:48) you can clearly see there is more than enough debris for Malware to regenerate from and thus debunking anyone scaling to 5A except maybe Malware when being the moon itself, although I'd argue that the pieces that weren't destroyed, weren't subjected to 5A-amounts of energy because of the moon's size, like every celestial body ever that gets blown up in fiction.

 

[Firestorm808]

I don't think Fourth form Malware saying he's only 100 times more powerful is referring to Feedback. If anything, the statement only applies to the amount of energy from the Omnitrix that destroyed Malware in the past which is unknown.

In the scenes below, you can't say that Form 3 Malware had the same power throughout. Absorbing more stuff gives him the size and power amps.




In the fight below, Way Big does pretty well against amped Form 3 Malware before he starts absorbing more stuff.


Ben 10 Omniverse - Waybig vs Malware

 

[Greenshifter]

Well Malware isn't known for underestimating himself, quite the opposite really. Apparently it's third form Malware that destroyed Feedback and while I still think that he only referenced himself before absorbing the energy of the Omnitrix because he says he's a hundred times more powerful than the moment he destroyed Feedback.

Him being third form changes the scaling to normal third form him being above the OS top tiers but still under OV Humungousaur cause he put up a fight against Humungousaur in a stronger version of third form and fourth form would be 100 times this.

And maybe we can find a more definitive scaling in Omniverse or the flashbacks for his normal third form or maybe the Tachyon Cannon has some good feat we can use?

 

[Spinoirr]

He should be large planet level as he scales to evil way big, who blew up aries that has been calculated to large planet level

 

[Greenshifter]

Evil Way Big from the movie or the video game? If it's the latter then nope, non-canon.

 

[Firestorm808]

I though you said it was possible due to the writer.

 

[Greenshifter]

It's not impossible, but I said that it's very iffy to scale Way Big to this because there would have to be no contradictions like Frankenstrike 23 hurting Mad Way Big and Malware's 100 times stronger statement (which yes still needs to be accepted but it's a revision thread for a reason).

Anyways when it comes to canonicity you're better off asking Ant but I doubt it'll get accepted because someone of the writers needs to say that it's canon or there should be some very obvious reference and story element like Nanomech and Helena with Alien Swarm or Eon and Race Against Time and literally showing what happened in that movie in UA. And I think that Vilgax Attacks doesn't even make it past our canonicity standards.

 

[Firestorm808]

Also, Frankenstrike 23 didn't even hurt Mad Way Big. He just looked down. He said that their attacks tickle.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6gknqb

Alien Swarm was written by John Turman, no relation to Man of Action.

Race Against Time was written by Mitch Watson. Also no relation.

 

[Greenshifter]

God dammit Zamasu you had one job.

Rath did survive an attack from Mad Way Big so there's that.

I have another case of someone hurting Way Big (at least if Liger did his homework) and also scaling to OS Four Arms but I'm gonna need the OS revision accepted for that.

They referenced it so it's canon, anyways just ask Ant, even if I agree that the video game is canon wouldn't mean the wiki does.

 

[Firestorm808]

Rath was smashed into a wall and got KO'd.

Canon as an alternate timeline, yes. I don't see why the games can't also be an alternate timeline, especially with a writer part of MOA. Paradox references Vilgax Attacks as an alternate timeline as well.

We will discuss the matter with the admins.

 

[Spinoirr]

Rath living could be PIS

 

[Firestorm808]

It was a slap to the wall, so it's not a serious attack. It's not like he was punched into the ground repeatedly. Also, no one wants to see someone turned into mush.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Being A celestial object is not at all A better feat than destroying or creating one, by that notion being A human would be A better feat than destroying A human body

False equivalancy. Simply being just human isn't able to be tiered at all besides being a regular 10-B being. While actually destroying a human body is worth something more as that requires said typical person to use beyond average human strength.

Even then, we treat Low 2-C characters that are literal universes here as being better than regular typical Low 2-Cs from the simple fact that they are Low 2-C by just...existing. Remember when Dialga and Palkia used to be among the strongest Low 2-Cs in the past here because of their heartbeats/breaths? And literally existing as a universal space-time continuum > passively keeping one in existence. I don't see how actually being the object someone else would either create or destroy isn't a better feat.

 

[Wokistan]

It isn't a better feat to be a moon than to destroy a moon though. People generally do not have the capacity to cause themselves to explode.

 

[Andytrenom]

It's literally the same thing, being an object vs being able to blow up that object. It also makes no sense to say being a human isn't able to be tiered if he can be tiered as 10-B

That also makes no sense and I'm almost certain that it's the "control time with a heartbeat" stuff that put Dialga and by Proxy Palkia above baseline, not just being universes themselves. On the flipside, a while ago when Saitama was 5-B, he was put against someone who got their rating via being a living planet, and it was agreed that Saitama would one-shot because that's what his rating implies.

 

[Wokistan]

For an example of a character who isnt 4-C despite being a star, check out SCP-001 (S. D. Locke's Proposal). It's the sun. However, that doesn't mean it's AP is 4-C. The sun doesn't emit that amount of energy, nor can it really attack otherwise. Simply being that big doesn't give him the power to destroy stars.

 

[DemonicDude]

So nanomech defeated Way big in that episode does that make him on par with way big heck no plus Lightning volt didn't hurt way big that logic doesn't make no sense. Several character have been pushed off just to create a sense during heat of the moment that doesn't make sense cause Lightning volt never KO'ed Way big and was running for his life along with Ben Prime. Case Closed

 

[DemonicDude]

It was a slap to the wall, so it's not a serious attack. It's not like he was punched into the ground repeatedly. Also, no one wants to see someone turned into mush.

I agree Sir,Like Ben 10,000 hurt extrermly hard to Kevin 11,000 from Ken 10 episode of Os Series but still didn't wanted to kill him ,it depend on users intention of using way big and how much force he wanted to apply to knock someone out.

 

[Firestorm808]

Actually, Nanomech just went into his head/brain and gave him a headache to the point of nausia, not an AP feat.

 

[Greenshifter]

Actually, Nanomech just went into his head/brain and gave him a headache to the point of nausia, not an AP feat.

Yet somehow this is argued to be out of character (well him transforming while in someone's brain) in most vs matches for Ben lol.

 

[Greenshifter]

Anyways I'll edit the OP and remove Lightning Volt.

Anyways this thread is far from over since we still need to get into the details of Malware's consciousness (him moving his consciousness to a part of his body that didn't explode and failing to do so in his fight against Feedback) and if we conclude that he is actually 5A then Way Big has no better reason to scale than Humungousaur (maybe this will change with Cosmic Destruction but even then) so all top tiers would then be 5A.

 

[Firestorm808]

Yet somehow this is argued to be out of character (well him transforming while in someone's brain) in most vs matches for Ben lol.

Ant-Man VS Thanos?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

For an example of a character who isnt 4-C despite being a star, check out SCP-001 (S. D. Locke's Proposal). It's the sun. However, that doesn't mean it's AP is 4-C. The sun doesn't emit that amount of energy, nor can it really attack otherwise. Simply being that big doesn't give him the power to destroy stars.

Im pretty sure this is an exception because of what you said. That the Sun doesn't emit 4-C energy but energy far lower than it. If this was any other star, 4-C would be a solid given.

That said, im told that characters who are what others create/destroy are just equal to them. Either way, this wouldn't shut down the point I was making. Above baseline or not, Malware's 3rd and 4th forms would still have to be at least 5-C for literally being a moon.