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Immeasurable Speed Sonic, time to PERISH

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The_Axiom_of_Virgo said:
@MikeBro25

I would appreciate if you stop derailing the thread with outdated and irrelevant arguments this an immeasurable speed CRT not a super form CRT at this point you're just gas-lighting the original topic!

I was going to keep quiet but this entire CRT has been poorly mis-managed in it's entirely:

*Posted by an user that gave zero hint nor discussion to the supporters/opponents of the verse before posting such an important CRT

*Not a single neutral or supporting Staff member has given their input yet...

*Ofc the CRT derails to another subject...

I swear other verses don't get nowhere as much strife as the Sonic verse, it seems my appeals to keep your personal bias for/against the verse fell on deaf ears!
Click to expand...
You do realized that I also suggest to remove the Immeasurable Feat right?
 
Gilad_Hyperstar said:
Every versre. Because by your logic having lower speed feats immediately debunks immeasurable speed regardless of how little sense it makes
Click to expand...
Okay then..........


Wally West: Shown multiple Immeasurable Speed Feats that are consistent

Pre Crisis Superman: Same as Wally

Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel): Has Immeasurable Speed that is not an outliner

Thanos with IG: It is Consistent with the IG

Every Verse is a bad point because there are examples that they have consistent Immeasurable Speed on most verses so better name a better example
 
MikeBro25 said:
Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel): Has Immeasurable Speed that is not an outliner
Click to expand...
Why not an outlier? Again using your own logic.

Also do you have proof to why this is an outlier?
Super Sonic's top speed was never mentioned and all of his other battles against anyone else were super casual.
 
MikeBro25 said:
These Immeasurable Speed Feats either is that its an outliner or that the Chaos Emeralds are VERY inconsistent
Click to expand...
Fictional Mcguffins
Click to expand...

Inconsistent powerlevels
Click to expand...

Hence the whole reason the "varies" tier exists, like seriously this argument is pointless.

Also are you going to bring actual evidence to back up your points as well as address Theuser's arguments for immeasurable speed (which are backed up by evidence) or are you going to continually spam "outlier" like it's going out of fashion while bringing up unrelated verses with zero context?
 
Ignoring Matt's Reddit/2016 mindset, User's arguments are the most solid within the thread and solidly prove that even if Solaris isn't Immeasurable on his lonesome, the Super Trio are.

Also. Can we stop the discussion of Super Sonic's finite speed and lower Tier placement, since it seems completely irrelevant to the point of the thread?
 
Q
ShakeResounding said:
Ignoring Matt's Reddit/2016 mindset, User's arguments are the most solid within the thread and solidly prove that even if Solaris isn't Immeasurable on his lonesome, the Super Trio are.

Also. Can we stop the discussion of Super Sonic's finite speed and lower Tier placement, since it seems completely irrelevant to the point of the thread?
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Agreed. Please stop the derailing
 
Been keeping an eye on this thread, dropped by to say I disagree with the removal of immeasurable speed with what I've seen
 
Neutral, but leaning toward the OP. Just having an attack going through time being Immeasurable is already kinda bs (so is Immeasurable in general), but an attack possibly going through time during time being distorded? Seems way too weak.
 
YuriAkuto said:
Neutral, but leaning toward the OP. Just having an attack going through time being Immeasurable is already kinda bs (so is Immeasurable in general), but an attack possibly going through time during time being distorded? Seems way too weak.
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Read my reply last page, I already showed there that time wasn't distorded, that was misconception
 
Theuser789 said:
Now to the "time was shaterred therefore this isn't a feat", which I don't understand why people are repeating this as a objective mantra when this was already adressed as wrong, just ignoring the other points

First, as a result of Mephiles becoming Solaris, he immediatley goes to destroy all universes, this spatial distortion caughts all the main characters (plot armor lol) bringing them all together, because as Shadow states they are in a intersection of time and space, as you can all see, the act of Solaris destroying everything created a intersection (ergo a point where two lines cross) of time and space, that's why Silver is with them, but as Eggman says it won't last for long
Click to expand...
This part here, space distortion created a intersection between time, a temporary one that would disappear
 
Theuser789 said:
This part here, space distortion created a intersection between time, a temporary one that would disappear
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When did it disappear tho? If it's still a thing during the fight, then it proves that it isn't speed-related.
 
ShakeResounding said:
I think we'd have to adjust the speed justifications for the Super Trio accordingly, and Solaris too since his Immeasurable speed gets the boot and he gets brought down to Omnipresent.

What would Sonic and co.'s Immeasurable ratings be reworded into? Any ideas? @Maverick_Zero_X @Theuser789 @Gilad_Hyperstar
Click to expand...
I would say it would look something like that:

Immeasurable (Can react to and dodge attacks from Solaris, whose attacks can hit all three hedgehogs regardless of what point in time they are in)

If you have suggestions for improvments, please let me know
 
Also, Matt is right that Time being messed up. If someone is causing Past, Present, and Future to be merged into time periods, then that only makes Immeasurable speed even more dubious. Not to mention the "Weak point" was even stated in lore about needing to be struck "Across all three time periods".
  • Yes, this is a problem for immeasurable speed.
First, everyone could see Solaris, even before the fighting even started, Solaris is not immesurable, he is onmipresent throught time, using the characters reacting to Solaris as a argument is incredible misleading because they all can see Solaris as a giant sun in the sky, this is show as well when they see Solaris being destroyed, therefore using this as a argument is just misinformation of the pro side points since only the hedgehogs are immesurable, the characters would need to react to the actions of the hedgehogs, cheering them on is not the same and it is dishonest to compare them both
  • Wait, you said they comment on it phase's Solaris so it would kind of disprove their they just saw Solaris as something like the sun; I am not talking about the control explanation which should be game mechanics.
And about the "immesurable needs a frozen background" argument, first the background is indeed frozen, as seen here, second the characters either react to what the non immesurable character is doing, or react to what happened to him, I hate using Dragon Ball exemples but in BoG the characters can't even sense nor see Goku and Beerus, but they still cheer the sayain on, I honestly don't understand putting reacting and cheering someone on the same tier
  • It would be antifeats for both cases; we still take note of them. In the end, the number of antifeats vs feats take precedence for the evaluation on what is accepted on the profile. The background looks to be moving, also.

If Solaris get a downgrade from Immeasuble then I don't think Hedgehogs won't get the speed also. I think it is never explained how the Hedgehogs travel to different time periods; going from Matthew's points, it sounds like it could the nature of time being mess up from Occam's Razor than them having immeasurable speed suddenly at peal. The distorted world is a mess of time periods which is shown when collecting the Chaos Emeralds seems to support this point. I am not fully sure about the gameplay statement on the rift in the English version as the Japanese statement makes it sounds like the world still has messed up time periods. Correct me if I am wrong, though

Solaris's flame needing blown off from being a tiny flame for it completely defeated, support the fight take place is just separated time periods.

I will say this point: there is PIS about the fight from the reactions from the casts and the nature of time is like a mess. I will be neutral on the matter but kind of leaning that Immeasurable speed might be iffy, right now.
 
Elizhaa said:
Also, Matt is right that Time being messed up. If someone is causing Past, Present, and Future to be merged into time periods, then that only makes Immeasurable speed even more dubious. Not to mention the "Weak point" was even stated in lore about needing to be struck "Across all three time periods".
  • Yes, this is a problem for immeasurable speed.
First, everyone could see Solaris, even before the fighting even started, Solaris is not immesurable, he is onmipresent throught time, using the characters reacting to Solaris as a argument is incredible misleading because they all can see Solaris as a giant sun in the sky, this is show as well when they see Solaris being destroyed, therefore using this as a argument is just misinformation of the pro side points since only the hedgehogs are immesurable, the characters would need to react to the actions of the hedgehogs, cheering them on is not the same and it is dishonest to compare them both
  • Wait, you said they comment on it phase's Solaris so it would kind of disprove their they just saw Solaris as something like the sun; I am not talking about the control explanation which should be game mechanics.
And about the "immesurable needs a frozen background" argument, first the background is indeed frozen, as seen here, second the characters either react to what the non immesurable character is doing, or react to what happened to him, I hate using Dragon Ball exemples but in BoG the characters can't even sense nor see Goku and Beerus, but they still cheer the sayain on, I honestly don't understand putting reacting and cheering someone on the same tier
  • It would be antifeats for both cases; we still take note of them. In the end, the number of antifeats vs feats take precedence for the evaluation on what is accepted on the profile. The background looks to be moving, also.

If Solaris get a downgrade from Immeasuble then I don't think Hedgehogs won't get the speed also. I think it is never explained how the Hedgehogs travel to different time periods; going from Matthew's points, it sounds like it could the nature of time being mess up from Occam's Razor than them having immeasurable speed suddenly at peal. The distorted world is a mess of time periods which is shown when collecting the Chaos Emeralds seems to support this point. I am not fully sure about the gameplay statement on the rift in the English version as the Japanese statement makes it sounds like the world still has messed up time periods. Correct me if I am wrong, though

Solaris's flame needing blown off from being a tiny flame for it completely defeated, support the fight take place is just separated time periods.

I will say this point: there is PIS about the fight from the reactions from the casts and the nature of time is like a mess. I will be neutral on the matter but kind of leaning that Immeasurable speed might be iffy, right now.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, Immeasurable Sonic is iffy
 
Da_Lunge_Fish said:
"How little sense it makes". You realize we have ONE immeasurable feat with next best one being billions? Literally infinitely lower. The living definition of outlier
Click to expand...
You can say that to any other verse with immeasurable speed. Since Immeasurable is infinitely above everything else, then any lower showing of speed immediately disqualifies the immeasurable feat.
 
00potato said:
When a character has reason to vary, and many of those speed feats are casual.

It is nigh impossible to animate immeasurable so it makes little sense to constantly show it off from a writing perspective. But it also means most showings aren’t really anti-feats.
Click to expand...
Basically, this is what I think
 
00potato said:
When a character has reason to vary, and many of those speed feats are casual.

It is nigh impossible to animate immeasurable so it makes little sense to constantly show it off from a writing perspective. But it also means most showings aren’t really anti-feats.
Click to expand...
Exactly. Like I said many times, if Sonic's AP varies, then why his speed wouldn't? Especially since in all other showing EXCEPT the Solaris feat, Super Sonic was extremely casual while battling and no enemy was even able to scratch him, let alone challange him
 
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