Immeasurable Speed Sonic, time to PERISH

[liluzivert]

also yeah, agree with ddm

 

[Theuser789]

Wait a minute, this entire post is just talking about the characters being able to "react" to it, not everything I said, the points are simple, I can reply todau

I was more so specifically talking about general instances we see raindrops moving at normal speed. Which I've also agreed was a terrible reason to dismiss speed feats faster than Subsonic but said examples do automatically debunk infinite or immeasurable speed feats.

There are no "raindrops" at all, never seem them out of years of playtime, I don't know what you are talking about

The background may debatably be frozen, but Amy, Elise, Eggman, Knuckles, Omega, and Rouge all were not frozen. Amy was able to see the blue lasers fired from Solaris coming, and why would he need to charge up his lasers if he was Immeasurable.

Solaris is not immesurable, and that's all I need to use to debunk this really, since that's what the argument

I agree that all three fight scenes are supposed to happen at the same time, but wasn't it implied on another thread Sonic was capable of taking him out singlehandedly? I don't know who it was that made that claim, but someone said it.

That was in AP, everyone agreed he needed help because of the temporal onmipresence

The rest is just talking about the Dragon Ball comparassion, and the rest is praise which I appreciate it and I will also say you are being one of the most level headed staff on the thread actualy listening to the points instead of going in tangents but I will stand by all my other points that aren't argued for

 

[Theuser789]

“Intersection” can easily refer to distortions in time which is what the Japanese text is referring too. This is supported in game when finding all seven emeralds. Tails can go to Crisis City, even though it takes place in the future 8:58, same with Omega at 10:01 at Flame Core.

In your evidence, Shadow states that the distortion caused this “intersection” with spacetime when eggman comments on how he was going to destroy all timelines. Speaking of which, eggman states that he will destroy all timelines, not that he already has. Solaris was tearing apart their universe by making it unstable, but he hasn’t destroyed it yet, and he hasn’t destroyed the multiverse yet either.

In other words, yes, even in the Japanese version, they are in a rift (or at least a place where time and space are unstable). And since nothing states or proves that the hedgehogs leave their universe to fight solaris, they are still fighting in their universe with the distorted space time, which makes the feat very questionable.

This is just ad nauseum, you are actively ignoring my entire post to cherrypick semantics while ignoring everyone who tells you otherwise, I can't convince you I am right because you don't want to be convinced, you just want to stay the same

 

[liluzivert]

This is just ad nauseum, you are actively ignoring my entire post to cherrypick semantics while ignoring everyone who tells you otherwise, I can't convince you I am right because you don't want to be convinced, you just want to stay the same

ok

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Raindrops were more of a general example; I agree it had nothing to do with the thread. But there are slight lights moving in the cloud background as described by Elizhaa.

Solaris not being Immeasurable only makes me even more skeptical about the Super Hedgehogs being Immeasurable, but I'll wait for other staff to comment on the Omnipresent stuff on that thread.

And the Immeasurable speed would be more believable if Sonic, Shadow, and Silver were the only ones talking or mentioning the lore stuff mid fight, but again, I also might need a break from this.

 

[ElixirBlue]

you are actively ignoring my entire post to cherrypick semantics while ignoring everyone who tells you otherwise

 

[Theuser789]

Raindrops were more of a general example; I agree it had nothing to do with the thread. But there are slight lights moving in the cloud background as described by Elizhaa.

Solaris not being Immeasurable only makes me even more skeptical about the Super Hedgehogs being Immeasurable, but I'll wait for other staff to comment on the Omnipresent stuff on that thread.

And the Immeasurable speed would be more believable if Sonic, Shadow, and Silver were the only ones talking or mentioning the lore stuff mid fight, but again, I also might need a break from this.

I think Elizah is talking about the effects of the attacks when they land, since that's the only effects there are in the fight, Sonic 06 is unifinished game where there are barely any effects afterall :/

Take your time, I don't mind other staff coming, we are only making any changes if we get enough support for it

 

[Theuser789]

Anyways could someone make a tally of who agrees and disagree with immesurable?

 

[00potato]

This might just be my new favorite instance of that meme, thanks Blue.

 

[ShakeResounding]

@DarkDragonMedeus Thanks for being level-headed. We've had more disagreements than otherwise in the past, but I appreciate you not just trying to rush things and being respectful.

Granted, this thread might be longer than anticipated.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

They're called smores Buzz

 

[Rikimarox2]

Ugh, different opinions in 2021, what a scary thought.

 

[Theuser789]

Anyways, I might have found more evidence against the argument of "characters react to it", in Sonic Generations Tails with help from himself builds a communicator that allows him to speak with Sonic even though it would be impossible, now it's never stated directly that this happened in 06, but the fact that Generations is the first game after 06 got "erased" with the cast talking to you, and the fact Tails and Eggman were both there and the latter even had a tractor that could see through the distorted world, could mean that something similar happened here, and would explain all the counter arguments while still kepping my logic sound

 

[ElixirBlue]

Ugh, different opinions in 2021, what a scary thought.

Different opinions =/= ignoring arguments, mister

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

bump

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Personally I've always disagreed.

It's also the only immeasurable jump ever even if you did believe it which makes me question it's consistency

 

[Earthyboy]

Personally I've always disagreed.

Would you mind explaining why? Claims would mean nothing if there's not substantial/valid proof behind them.

 

[liluzivert]

The fact that you guys think I’m ignoring arguments when I’m just responding what I think just makes me not want to talk here at all

 

[ElixirBlue]

Personally I've always disagreed.

Would you mind explaining why? Claims would mean nothing if there's not substantial/valid proof behind them.

Why yes, I believe an explanation for such a bias is in order so any further arguments you may present have an air of honestly behind it.

It's also the only immeasurable jump ever even if you did believe it

So you got any arguments against the points already discussed in the thread? Would love to hear them.

If not, well...

 

[Theuser789]

The fact that you guys think I’m ignoring arguments when I’m just responding what I think just makes me not want to talk here at all

If you want to ignore reality then don't talk, because you objectively ignored arguments

Anyways Fox comment is just the outlier argument AGAIN, which is completely irrelevant to the thread

In order to be fair let's talk about the actual feat itself if it's immesurable or not, since people have been ignoring it ever since my post

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

If you want to ignore reality then don't talk, because you objectively ignored arguments

Anyways Fox comment is just the outlier argument AGAIN, which is completely irrelevant to the thread

In order to be fair let's talk about the actual feat itself if it's immesurable or not, since people have been ignoring it ever since my post

Folks should practice what they preach when talking about "consistency" it's tiring dealing with folks who not only ignore arguments but also change the goalposts just to force their preconceptions.

Anyway we should wait until DDM replies since he was the only one to actually attempt to address most of Theuser's evidence (without completely misunderstanding his points).

I swear this CRT reeks of double standards!

 

[Theuser789]

Now before ending this I want the opposition to explain how those three hedgehogs with finite speed and no special powers, were able to defeat a being that exists in all of time and that his attacks also exists in all of time, clearly not following the speed formula, this must be what is first responded to understand how this can happen.

Just reposting this because it wasn't adressed

We should stop arguing the misconceptions and focus on the feats first, see if it is truly immesurable, because the awnser to this will determine the thread's destiny

 

[liluzivert]

If you want to ignore reality then don't talk, because you objectively ignored arguments

Anyways Fox comment is just the outlier argument AGAIN, which is completely irrelevant to the thread

In order to be fair let's talk about the actual feat itself if it's immesurable or not, since people have been ignoring it ever since my post

I objectively did? how. I covered everything and how you guys had a misconception about what they meant in the Japanese cutscene. and then you claim “ad nauseam” and then I get memed on.

 

[Theuser789]

No, you nitpicked an very specific interpretation and actively ignored my question on why he would be in """"rift"""" when he was destroying everything, and the explanation of the objects and why the fact there aren't any proves you wrong

You repeated yourself, ad nauseum, and are being biased like not calling any derrail posts even though you are the OP even though you did in other threads

Take the L

 

[liluzivert]

No, you nitpicked an very specific interpretation and actively ignored my question on why he would be in """"rift"""" when he was destroying everything, and the explanation of the objects and why the fact there aren't any proves you wrong

You repeated yourself, ad nauseum, and are being biased like not calling any derrail posts even though you are the OP even though you did in other threads

Take the L

Nothing proves that everything was already destroyed. Eggman says he was going to destroy all timelines, not that he already has.

I pointed those out in other threads because it was a million posts being made and I couldn’t tell what was going on. I’m not defending derails here, in fact I’m glad that they did stop because yeah, I agree with the variable tier and that nothing here is an outlier. I just didn’t think it was as bad as the other thread. My b for not pointing it out but damn dude, all I get from this comment is that “im right ur wrong lol” and if you think that then cool, do what you want

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Well, Generations was made after Sonic 2006, so I'm not sure if it can be assumed Tails was giving everyone else those communicators. And Time Eater also doesn't quite have Immeasurable speed. So while it's proof of Interdimensional range via communicators, it doesn't seem like the technically would grant anyone Immeasurable perception. But I suppose I already said enough and there enough counter arguments. So I won't be using those to dismiss Immeasurable speed anymore.

The only thing left I have is the verdict on non Omnipresent characters trading blows with Omnipresent deities being something that grants Immeasurable speed. Which I'm going to keep on the other thread til that reached a conclusion.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Nothing proves that everything was already destroyed. Eggman says he was going to destroy all timelines, not that he already has.

Concession accepted. If you say time wasn’t destroyed then you agree Solaris was omnipresent across all of time, therefore conceding to immeasurable Super Sonic for being fast enough to destroy Solaris’ body in all points in time at the same time.

 

[liluzivert]

Concession accepted. If you say time wasn’t destroyed then you agree Solaris was omnipresent across all of time, therefore conceding to immeasurable Super Sonic for being fast enough to destroy Solaris’ body in all points in time at the same time.

isn’t he arguing for time being destroyed by saying the multiverse was already destroyed? And two, I’m saying time here is wonky and distorted, allowing people like tails to walk into the future as if it were space, which makes the feat iffy for me. I feel like DDM covered the omnipresent stuff well so I didn’t really mention that.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Tails “walking into the future” was because everyone and everything were inside a rift.

 

[liluzivert]

Tails “walking into the future” was because everyone and everything were inside a rift.

yeah that’s my point, time is distorted here. Also user is saying they aren’t in a rift.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Time being distorted =/= destroyed. There’s still a past, present and future.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Either way nothing will be achieved until the conclusion of the other thread that decides the Wikis standard for characters that fight characters that are omnipresent throughout time, space, dimensions, voids, etc or a mixture of two or more them.

 

[liluzivert]

Time being distorted =/= destroyed. There’s still a past, present and future.

I know, I’m not saying time doesn’t exist here, I’m saying it’s gone out of wack, which would’ve gave the hedgehogs a way to beat solaris’ omnipresence.

 

[liluzivert]

Either way nothing will be achieved until the conclusion of the other thread that decides the Wikis standard for characters that fight characters that are omnipresent throughout time, space, dimensions, voids, etc or a mixture of two or more them.

true. we can just wait until then.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

I know, I’m not saying time doesn’t exist here, I’m saying it’s gone out of wack, which would’ve gave the hedgehogs a way to beat solaris’ omnipresence.

And what “way” is that? Explain in detail how that helped?

 

[liluzivert]

And what “way” is that? Explain in detail how that helped?

They could’ve used the rift to their advantage and utilized the ****** up time to attack Solaris in the past, present, and future. It’s not to say that they did do so or not, it’s more like something that makes the feat a bit sus.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Could’ve? So you don’t know? If you’re gonna include such guess work and ignorance in your arguments then you should concede.

 

[liluzivert]

Could’ve? So you don’t know? If you’re gonna include such guess work and ignorance in your arguments then you should concede.

thing is, we don’t know what method they used to beat Solaris. Silver just says they’ll attack in the past present and future, but they never state that they’ll do it with sheer speed. Of course, that’s one way they could do it, but using the distorted time to their advantage is another way they can. And with these new omnipresent standards the latter seems a bit more likely.

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

Fam. Sonic is ramming himself into Solaris, Shadow is throwing chaos spears at Solaris and Silver is deflecting attacks from Solaris. Nothing else. Literally the only way to destroy something in the past present and future simultaneously is to either destroy all of time in a timeline or be fast enough to do so.

 

[Theuser789]

That post is literally unsusbstanseid headcanon with literally no proof except what if, I have been vindicated in what I said

Silver says that he will beat Solaris in the past, present and future, Shadow says they can do that with Sonic, if they used the """"rift"""" instead they wouldn't need Sonic, your baseless headcanon got refuted